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Could it be the ageing population? People's political views become more right-wing as they age.

by noja 5y ago

thepasswordis 5y ago
Do you think it's the right wing who is asking for pervasive surveillance, de-anonymization of the internet, permanent lock downs, etc.?
- hnbad 5y ago
  Were you alive during the time after 9/11? Have you even listened to conservatives talking about "Big Tech" recently (or "election fraud" and the measures they want taken to combat it)? Mass surveillance was and the erosion of civil liberties were literally the biggest parts of post-9/11 legislation to the point where drone striking a US citizen became socially acceptable among conservatives. Conservatives also called for the deaths of Snowden and Assange for "treason". You can at least admit this isn't a partisan issue even if US politicians love to frame it as one.
  - thepasswordis 5y ago
    >Drone striking a us citizen I can’t tell if your joking. Obama definitely was not a conservative, and he actually called a drone strike on a US citizen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki However the people right now calling for Orwellian surveillance and restriction of travel are not right wingers.
    - hnbad 5y ago
      Oh, right, I remember the uproar from conservatives protesting the drone striking of a US citizen by the far-left Obama. Remember the PATRIOT Act? Remember the NSA mass surveillance program (which is btw still ongoing)? Remember black sites? Remember Guantanamo Bay? Remember No Fly Lists? Remember the 60 Words? Remember the militarization of the police force? Remember dragnet phone surveillance? ... Remember the PATRIOT Act? I didn't say it's only right-wingers. I said it's not a partisan phenomenon.
      - pigeonhole123 5y ago
        As long as we can reliable place blame on a US political party this problem will go away. /s
  - SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
    > Have you even listened to conservatives talking about "Big Tech" recently Uh, isn’t that completely opposite though? No conservatives are pushing for government control of the internet, because we already have it with these companies that are directly working with/for the government. Governments don’t need to build their own spy apparatuses, they just ask FAANG for the data. It was popular conservative news for weeks that Jen Psaki admitted they were in contact with Facebook to remove problematic posts about topics that were against the Administration's goals. Their own AG, Merrick Garland said they needed to be careful that this is “walking on thin ice”. I think you were misunderstanding some of the conservative points of view, I recommend actually speaking to a conservative.
- stephen_g 5y ago
  Well, in Australia it basically is, yeah… Part of the problem is that people can have such different ideas of the terms “left” and “right” depending on their perspective… In the US, I don’t believe there even is a mainstream “left wing” party. The Democrats are obviously to the left, but I would say (trying to be objective) they’re mostly centre-right with a touch of identity politics. In Australia, our opposition has really moved from the centre left to the centre right as the party in Government has moved further right wing, mostly just over the last few years. We still have a left wing minor party, but they don’t get many seats yet.
  - stephen_g 5y ago
    That was meant to be “Democrats are obviously to left of Republicans”
hnbad 5y ago
That's a common misconception. People don't become more right-wing with age, people become more right-wing with wealth. Turns out if you have a lot of personal property you suddenly are a lot easier to convince that you deserve it and others want to take it away. The good old "if you're not a liberal when you're young, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative when you've grown up, you have no sense" is just a way to morally justify a political shift that happens to align with a change in financial interests, nothing more. EDIT: Here's a source since people seem to downvote based on their feelings: https://www.insidehook.com/article/politics/millennials-voting-patterns https://www.insidehook.com/article/politics/millennials-voti... It doesn't outright say the difference is wealth but it does say the expected trend towards conservativism doesn't present in Millennials to the same degree.

Could it be the ageing population? People's political views become more right-wing as they age.

by noja 5y ago

Could it be the ageing population? People's political views become more right-wing as they age.

Do you think it's the right wing who is asking for pervasive surveillance, de-anonymization of the internet, permanent lock downs, etc.?

hnbad 5y ago
Were you alive during the time after 9/11? Have you even listened to conservatives talking about "Big Tech" recently (or "election fraud" and the measures they want taken to combat it)? Mass surveillance was and the erosion of civil liberties were literally the biggest parts of post-9/11 legislation to the point where drone striking a US citizen became socially acceptable among conservatives. Conservatives also called for the deaths of Snowden and Assange for "treason". You can at least admit this isn't a partisan issue even if US politicians love to frame it as one.
- thepasswordis 5y ago
  >Drone striking a us citizen I can’t tell if your joking. Obama definitely was not a conservative, and he actually called a drone strike on a US citizen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki However the people right now calling for Orwellian surveillance and restriction of travel are not right wingers.
  - hnbad 5y ago
    Oh, right, I remember the uproar from conservatives protesting the drone striking of a US citizen by the far-left Obama. Remember the PATRIOT Act? Remember the NSA mass surveillance program (which is btw still ongoing)? Remember black sites? Remember Guantanamo Bay? Remember No Fly Lists? Remember the 60 Words? Remember the militarization of the police force? Remember dragnet phone surveillance? ... Remember the PATRIOT Act? I didn't say it's only right-wingers. I said it's not a partisan phenomenon.
    - pigeonhole123 5y ago
      As long as we can reliable place blame on a US political party this problem will go away. /s
- SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
  > Have you even listened to conservatives talking about "Big Tech" recently Uh, isn’t that completely opposite though? No conservatives are pushing for government control of the internet, because we already have it with these companies that are directly working with/for the government. Governments don’t need to build their own spy apparatuses, they just ask FAANG for the data. It was popular conservative news for weeks that Jen Psaki admitted they were in contact with Facebook to remove problematic posts about topics that were against the Administration's goals. Their own AG, Merrick Garland said they needed to be careful that this is “walking on thin ice”. I think you were misunderstanding some of the conservative points of view, I recommend actually speaking to a conservative.
stephen_g 5y ago
Well, in Australia it basically is, yeah… Part of the problem is that people can have such different ideas of the terms “left” and “right” depending on their perspective… In the US, I don’t believe there even is a mainstream “left wing” party. The Democrats are obviously to the left, but I would say (trying to be objective) they’re mostly centre-right with a touch of identity politics. In Australia, our opposition has really moved from the centre left to the centre right as the party in Government has moved further right wing, mostly just over the last few years. We still have a left wing minor party, but they don’t get many seats yet.
- stephen_g 5y ago
  That was meant to be “Democrats are obviously to left of Republicans”

hnbad 5y ago

That's a common misconception. People don't become more right-wing with age, people become more right-wing with wealth. Turns out if you have a lot of personal property you suddenly are a lot easier to convince that you deserve it and others want to take it away. The good old "if you're not a liberal when you're young, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative when you've grown up, you have no sense" is just a way to morally justify a political shift that happens to align with a change in financial interests, nothing more. EDIT: Here's a source since people seem to downvote based on their feelings: https://www.insidehook.com/article/politics/millennials-voting-patterns https://www.insidehook.com/article/politics/millennials-voti... It doesn't outright say the difference is wealth but it does say the expected trend towards conservativism doesn't present in Millennials to the same degree.