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> It’s also 12 than any normal attentive human has gotten into Are you comparing a fleet of cars driving millions of miles to the performance of one ostensibly

> It’s also 12 than any normal attentive human has gotten into Are you comparing a fleet of cars driving millions of miles to the performance of one ostensibly good driver? Ok, I guess we’ll need perfect systems, see you after the heat death of the universe.

yifanl 5y ago
There's never going to be a perfect comparison when the same AI can drive every car in the fleet at the same time, whereas one human brain can drive at most one car at a time.
- garyfirestorm 5y ago
  Yeah but the issue is at hand is specifically 12 cars. You can put 12 humans in cars and watch them brake before hitting emergency vehicles. If they’re claiming AI is better than humans then it’s important to understand why these 12 are so bad.
mikepurvis 5y ago
I get this argument in abstract, but I don't think it's fair when we're talking about obviously unsafe behaviour that literally no human driver should ever do, except in cases of like, extreme medical distress. It's about the unknown unknowns. If you have Teslas slamming into stopped emergency vehicles with their lights on, and you don't know why, what else don't we know about their ability to perceive and reason about the world that they're navigating in?
- kook_throwaway 5y ago
  Humans should never do it, but I'd be surprised if it happened less than once a week.
  - mikepurvis 5y ago
    Really? Not steering into a stopped, highly visible emergency vehicle with its lights on? Humans do a lot of dumb, irresponsible things on the road, but this is not one of them.
    - kook_throwaway 5y ago
      It shouldn't even be a question, seriously? This cop[1] tells a lady not to stand between the vehicles because she will get killed if his patrol car gets hit, and seconds later it happens and he says "just like that". >this is not one of them. Yes[2], this[3] is[4] one[5] of[6] them[7]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZDIwaRWCl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZDIwaRWCl0 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97D3llj0KSQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97D3llj0KSQ [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV5FrWTATDY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV5FrWTATDY [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loex5U9zD0s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loex5U9zD0s [5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khz9hlpvhko https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khz9hlpvhko [6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyaa6zEHZ2Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyaa6zEHZ2Q [7] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piT4lZBGU4w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piT4lZBGU4w
      - adanto6840 5y ago
        This is the reality of the situation and, frankly, should be a top-level comment. I don't really have a horse in this overall race but IMO your factual perspective is spot-on -- this has happened, plenty of times, by actual humans. Just like anything else, it may not be common (or it may be 'uncommon') but, to say that it never happens, is plainly, clearly and objectively false.
- snovv_crash 5y ago
  The failure modes of a new driving system are going to be distributed differently than the old system. This is exactly the same flawed argument as "we should ban all human drivers because in the situation where they get drunk they have lots of accidents and self-driving cars don't have that problem". That said, I suspect there is some systematic issue with Tesla's system and flashing lights, and I bet they are working like demons to identify and fix it already.
  - asddubs 5y ago
    which unfortunately also makes them less predictable for other drivers and thus harder to account for/react to in time
yawaworht1978 5y ago
Nope, he is simply saying that a human of sound state of mind does not have these accidents. The authorities are simply viewing Tesla's credibility as undermined. They ask themselves, if it can't do this, how can it get anything right, or there must be many more flaws. The humans do not like to pass over control to machines unless the machines do it clearly better. And in this case, the authority does not want to have their credibility shot by looking away from the Tesla issue, it cannot be pushed under the metaphorical carpet anymore, there is a bulge under the carpet visible to anyone who wants to see.

yifanl 5y ago

There's never going to be a perfect comparison when the same AI can drive every car in the fleet at the same time, whereas one human brain can drive at most one car at a time.

garyfirestorm 5y ago
Yeah but the issue is at hand is specifically 12 cars. You can put 12 humans in cars and watch them brake before hitting emergency vehicles. If they’re claiming AI is better than humans then it’s important to understand why these 12 are so bad.

mikepurvis 5y ago

I get this argument in abstract, but I don't think it's fair when we're talking about obviously unsafe behaviour that literally no human driver should ever do, except in cases of like, extreme medical distress. It's about the unknown unknowns. If you have Teslas slamming into stopped emergency vehicles with their lights on, and you don't know why, what else don't we know about their ability to perceive and reason about the world that they're navigating in?

kook_throwaway 5y ago
Humans should never do it, but I'd be surprised if it happened less than once a week.
- mikepurvis 5y ago
  Really? Not steering into a stopped, highly visible emergency vehicle with its lights on? Humans do a lot of dumb, irresponsible things on the road, but this is not one of them.
  - kook_throwaway 5y ago
    It shouldn't even be a question, seriously? This cop[1] tells a lady not to stand between the vehicles because she will get killed if his patrol car gets hit, and seconds later it happens and he says "just like that". >this is not one of them. Yes[2], this[3] is[4] one[5] of[6] them[7]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZDIwaRWCl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZDIwaRWCl0 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97D3llj0KSQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97D3llj0KSQ [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV5FrWTATDY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV5FrWTATDY [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loex5U9zD0s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loex5U9zD0s [5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khz9hlpvhko https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khz9hlpvhko [6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyaa6zEHZ2Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyaa6zEHZ2Q [7] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piT4lZBGU4w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piT4lZBGU4w
    - adanto6840 5y ago
      This is the reality of the situation and, frankly, should be a top-level comment. I don't really have a horse in this overall race but IMO your factual perspective is spot-on -- this has happened, plenty of times, by actual humans. Just like anything else, it may not be common (or it may be 'uncommon') but, to say that it never happens, is plainly, clearly and objectively false.
snovv_crash 5y ago
The failure modes of a new driving system are going to be distributed differently than the old system. This is exactly the same flawed argument as "we should ban all human drivers because in the situation where they get drunk they have lots of accidents and self-driving cars don't have that problem". That said, I suspect there is some systematic issue with Tesla's system and flashing lights, and I bet they are working like demons to identify and fix it already.
- asddubs 5y ago
  which unfortunately also makes them less predictable for other drivers and thus harder to account for/react to in time

yawaworht1978 5y ago

Nope, he is simply saying that a human of sound state of mind does not have these accidents. The authorities are simply viewing Tesla's credibility as undermined. They ask themselves, if it can't do this, how can it get anything right, or there must be many more flaws. The humans do not like to pass over control to machines unless the machines do it clearly better. And in this case, the authority does not want to have their credibility shot by looking away from the Tesla issue, it cannot be pushed under the metaphorical carpet anymore, there is a bulge under the carpet visible to anyone who wants to see.