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Would be very interesting to hear from a Finn about this. - Is the labor shortage real, or is the available labor simply too expensive for local tastes? - The

Would be very interesting to hear from a Finn about this. - Is the labor shortage real, or is the available labor simply too expensive for local tastes? - The Finnish education system was held up as the most successful in the world when that was a topic a couple years ago; why can't it produce more tech talent? - Does the country experience a significant brain drain of (English-speaking) local engineers? - Given the circumstances, why not try to use more remote labor (e.g. in EU countries, within the same time zone) rather than trying to move people to Helsinki?

Kuytu 5y ago
Some very simplified answers: - Everyone would hire more seniors if possible. Juniors are sometimes seen as expensive and hiring only juniors does not scale. - Education systems do not produce senior people. Also there are other sectors than tech too. I don't know the current situation, but it used to be that places for IT education were never filled completely. There just isn't enough people. - I don't remember this being reported as significant - I believe there is difficulties with taxation etc. if you hire people living in different country.
user-the-name 5y ago
> Is the labor shortage real It is pretty real. Hiring programmers is a challenge. The pay you can get is pretty good. > The Finnish education system was held up as the most successful in the world when that was a topic a couple years ago; why can't it produce more tech talent? Only 5.5 million people in all of Finland. > Does the country experience a significant brain drain of (English-speaking) local engineers? No. Finns don't move abroad that often. > Given the circumstances, why not try to use more remote labor (e.g. in EU countries, within the same time zone) rather than trying to move people to Helsinki? More of that is happening, especially after the pandemic, but obviously the mayor of Helsinki would not want that.
dsign 5y ago
I'm going to answer with anecdotal evidence from Finnish people I know, not first hand. - Is the labor shortage real, or is the available labor simply too expensive for local tastes? Both, but mostly the first. A friend of mine chose to work for a local consulting company because it paid more than certain well-known Game Engine company in USA. Furthermore, the Finnish company was more "agile" in the recruitment process, meaning they probably weren't feeling picky, but rather slightly desperate. Caveats: it's just one case. - The Finnish education system was held up as the most successful in the world when that was a topic a couple years ago; why can't it produce more tech talent? There seems to be a mismatch between how much Nordic people are in need of the money and job security that a tech profession brings, and the industry needs. In other words, with a social security net, more people pursues other careers, even if they risk finding themselves jobless at certain point. - Does the country experience a significant brain drain of (English-speaking) local engineers? Hard to answer that one, but it seems the opposite. Last time I checked, Finland had a downright friendly immigration system for qualified people. - Given the circumstances, why not try to use more remote labor (e.g. in EU countries, within the same time zone) rather than trying to move people to Helsinki? Companies do use remote labor, but I don't think that's a policy the major of Helsinki would go out of his way to promote publicly. Also, when it comes to tech talent, the EU has a peculiar situation: some countries have affordable tech talent slightly in excess, and some countries are searching for affordable tech talent. So there is market competition for the same talent. Hiring out-of-border is not an automatic guaranty of meeting needs. There is another factor, and that's that Finland invests heavily in social security. A local engineer benefits from those investments just by living in Finland. For example, child-care and free, high quality healthcare. Add other benefits the employer already gives to the local workforce, like access to a gym, local cafeteria, and work facilities. An employer may believe they can extract higher-quality labor from somebody by relocating them to a place where they enjoy those investments, and that would come practically at no extra cost for that employer.

Kuytu 5y ago

Some very simplified answers: - Everyone would hire more seniors if possible. Juniors are sometimes seen as expensive and hiring only juniors does not scale. - Education systems do not produce senior people. Also there are other sectors than tech too. I don't know the current situation, but it used to be that places for IT education were never filled completely. There just isn't enough people. - I don't remember this being reported as significant - I believe there is difficulties with taxation etc. if you hire people living in different country.

user-the-name 5y ago

> Is the labor shortage real It is pretty real. Hiring programmers is a challenge. The pay you can get is pretty good. > The Finnish education system was held up as the most successful in the world when that was a topic a couple years ago; why can't it produce more tech talent? Only 5.5 million people in all of Finland. > Does the country experience a significant brain drain of (English-speaking) local engineers? No. Finns don't move abroad that often. > Given the circumstances, why not try to use more remote labor (e.g. in EU countries, within the same time zone) rather than trying to move people to Helsinki? More of that is happening, especially after the pandemic, but obviously the mayor of Helsinki would not want that.

dsign 5y ago

I'm going to answer with anecdotal evidence from Finnish people I know, not first hand. - Is the labor shortage real, or is the available labor simply too expensive for local tastes? Both, but mostly the first. A friend of mine chose to work for a local consulting company because it paid more than certain well-known Game Engine company in USA. Furthermore, the Finnish company was more "agile" in the recruitment process, meaning they probably weren't feeling picky, but rather slightly desperate. Caveats: it's just one case. - The Finnish education system was held up as the most successful in the world when that was a topic a couple years ago; why can't it produce more tech talent? There seems to be a mismatch between how much Nordic people are in need of the money and job security that a tech profession brings, and the industry needs. In other words, with a social security net, more people pursues other careers, even if they risk finding themselves jobless at certain point. - Does the country experience a significant brain drain of (English-speaking) local engineers? Hard to answer that one, but it seems the opposite. Last time I checked, Finland had a downright friendly immigration system for qualified people. - Given the circumstances, why not try to use more remote labor (e.g. in EU countries, within the same time zone) rather than trying to move people to Helsinki? Companies do use remote labor, but I don't think that's a policy the major of Helsinki would go out of his way to promote publicly. Also, when it comes to tech talent, the EU has a peculiar situation: some countries have affordable tech talent slightly in excess, and some countries are searching for affordable tech talent. So there is market competition for the same talent. Hiring out-of-border is not an automatic guaranty of meeting needs. There is another factor, and that's that Finland invests heavily in social security. A local engineer benefits from those investments just by living in Finland. For example, child-care and free, high quality healthcare. Add other benefits the employer already gives to the local workforce, like access to a gym, local cafeteria, and work facilities. An employer may believe they can extract higher-quality labor from somebody by relocating them to a place where they enjoy those investments, and that would come practically at no extra cost for that employer.