3 ms·

Sorry let me re-phrase "Nope. Germany averages about 6% of transmission loss" I wasn't referring to ohmic losses, or transmission losses. I was referring to c

Sorry let me re-phrase "Nope. Germany averages about 6% of transmission loss" I wasn't referring to ohmic losses, or transmission losses. I was referring to consumed along the way. The power generated in Vladivostok doesn't reach Germany not because the line losses are real, but because there'a country of 150 million inbetween. "We have this in Europe ffs. Almost all of Europe, parts of Asia (Turkey) and North Africa (Morocco, Algeria, Tunesia) run in a synchronized-phase grid, and we have interconnection links to the insular ones (UK, Nordic countries, and a small one tying us to Russia). The entire former Soviet Union runs on a synchronized-phase grid" Indeed you do (and there's problems with that), and it's not the impressive frankly (N. America has the same, with HVDC interconnects). But the OP was (clearly?) suggesting transporting all the power needed in Europe in, say, the Gobi desert. That's a scale of grid capacity that you do not have.

mschuster91 5y ago
> Indeed you do (and there's problems with that) Which ones? Our grid is extremely resilient - the last major customer-visible nation-wide outage was in 2006 when a mistake during the shutdown of a power line for the crossing of a ship underneath led to a failure cascade. Meanwhile, the US has outage reports every few months, including such absurdities as rolling outages to prevent wildfires from shoddy unmaintained networks. Or the shit that went down in Texas, which refuses interconnections to avoid federal regulations. > But the OP was (clearly?) suggesting transporting all the power needed in Europe in, say, the Gobi desert. That's a scale of grid capacity that you do not have. We don't need a grid powerful enough to shift all the power around, as we have plenty of local renewable electricity from various sources. For the rest? Italy is planning to build a new submarine interconnect to Tunisia (https://www.derstandard.de/story/2000121873523/italiens-netzbetreiber-terna-plant-stromleitung-durch-das-mittelmeer https://www.derstandard.de/story/2000121873523/italiens-netz...), sized enough to transport energy towards Northern Europe.
- sasfasaf 5y ago
  "Which ones?" Cascading failures. Those are very effectively blocked by power islands connected by HVDC lines (like Texas is). A power outage like the North East in 2003 is unlikely in Europe because of your mild weather being unlikely to put your infrastructure to the test. "the last major customer-visible nation-wide outage was in 2006 [...]." You're comparing Germany (?) to the US more than six times as populous and far larger in extent and far lower density? The last outage that impacted me in my corner of my continent was back in 2003. Europe literally has the most benign weather on Earth. Barely any tornados. Barely any hurricanes. Barely any Blizzards. Heck you don't even have good thunderstorms - trust me, I grew up in Europe, there's no good thunderstorms there. "Meanwhile, the US has outage reports every few months, including such absurdities as rolling outages to prevent wildfires from shoddy unmaintained networks. Or the shit that went down in Texas, which refuses interconnections to avoid federal regulations." You really have little appreciation of the scale of California and Texas. Cali is 30% larger than Germany, twice as long, with taller mountains, little to no water, and full of combustible material. Texas' outage had nothing to do with its interconnections. A rare weather event froze the gas pipelines at the same time they were supposed to pick up the slack from derated renewable generations. Texas' neighbors had no electricity to give (and in fact, the neighbors complained that Texas stopped exporting power - Texas IS connected to the rest of N. America). Now, you could point out that Texas should have been better prepared for rare weather. I agree. So should have the Rhine Valley Region.

mschuster91 5y ago

> Indeed you do (and there's problems with that) Which ones? Our grid is extremely resilient - the last major customer-visible nation-wide outage was in 2006 when a mistake during the shutdown of a power line for the crossing of a ship underneath led to a failure cascade. Meanwhile, the US has outage reports every few months, including such absurdities as rolling outages to prevent wildfires from shoddy unmaintained networks. Or the shit that went down in Texas, which refuses interconnections to avoid federal regulations. > But the OP was (clearly?) suggesting transporting all the power needed in Europe in, say, the Gobi desert. That's a scale of grid capacity that you do not have. We don't need a grid powerful enough to shift all the power around, as we have plenty of local renewable electricity from various sources. For the rest? Italy is planning to build a new submarine interconnect to Tunisia (https://www.derstandard.de/story/2000121873523/italiens-netzbetreiber-terna-plant-stromleitung-durch-das-mittelmeer https://www.derstandard.de/story/2000121873523/italiens-netz...), sized enough to transport energy towards Northern Europe.

sasfasaf 5y ago
"Which ones?" Cascading failures. Those are very effectively blocked by power islands connected by HVDC lines (like Texas is). A power outage like the North East in 2003 is unlikely in Europe because of your mild weather being unlikely to put your infrastructure to the test. "the last major customer-visible nation-wide outage was in 2006 [...]." You're comparing Germany (?) to the US more than six times as populous and far larger in extent and far lower density? The last outage that impacted me in my corner of my continent was back in 2003. Europe literally has the most benign weather on Earth. Barely any tornados. Barely any hurricanes. Barely any Blizzards. Heck you don't even have good thunderstorms - trust me, I grew up in Europe, there's no good thunderstorms there. "Meanwhile, the US has outage reports every few months, including such absurdities as rolling outages to prevent wildfires from shoddy unmaintained networks. Or the shit that went down in Texas, which refuses interconnections to avoid federal regulations." You really have little appreciation of the scale of California and Texas. Cali is 30% larger than Germany, twice as long, with taller mountains, little to no water, and full of combustible material. Texas' outage had nothing to do with its interconnections. A rare weather event froze the gas pipelines at the same time they were supposed to pick up the slack from derated renewable generations. Texas' neighbors had no electricity to give (and in fact, the neighbors complained that Texas stopped exporting power - Texas IS connected to the rest of N. America). Now, you could point out that Texas should have been better prepared for rare weather. I agree. So should have the Rhine Valley Region.