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My approach to philosophy is to essentially choose a masterpiece and study only that masterpiece in depth, with secondary academic texts. His list takes too lon

My approach to philosophy is to essentially choose a masterpiece and study only that masterpiece in depth, with secondary academic texts. His list takes too long, and my life is too short to read a bunch of fluff. The books I have studied in depth are: Thus Spoke Zarathustra by Nietzsche The Republic by Plato A Critique of Pure Reason by Kant The Phenomenology of the Spirit by Hegel Life is so short, read nothing but the cornerstones (this may not be that) of western thought. A great author for secondary texts is Stanley Rosen. He presents the material in a way that captures my imagination, and makes the philosophy understandable for a lay man. I would also argue, that for most serious texts, if you arent reading them with a guide (in my case often multiple), then you are wasting your time.

kranner 5y ago
> Life is so short, read nothing but the cornerstones (this may not be that) of western thought. I'd like to recommend Bryan W Van Norden's book "Taking Back Philosophy: A Multicultural Manifesto" for those willing to concede that maybe life is not short enough to ignore everything but Western thought. https://www.amazon.com/Taking-Back-Philosophy-Multicultural-Manifesto/dp/0231184379 https://www.amazon.com/Taking-Back-Philosophy-Multicultural-... edit: my original comment was asking "Why only western thought?" I removed it as it wasn't substantial enough.
- ldjkfkdsjnv 5y ago
  With all due respect, please do not denigrate western philosophy by asserting its ubiquity is due to eurocentrism.
  - kranner 5y ago
    Not denigrating Western Philosophy at all -- whose ubiquity may well be due to Eurocentrism primarily -- just saying there's more to look at elsewhere if one is interested in philosophy in general.
    - cyber_kinetist 5y ago
      Any specific pointers on what books you should read? (Apart from the popular books / manifestos, I’m searching for real alternatives)
      - kranner 5y ago
        The Further Reading sections at the ends of volumes 3 (Philosophy in the Islamic World) and 5 (Classical Indian Philosophy) by Peter Adamson et al are great.
- cyber_kinetist 5y ago
  The problem seems to be that, most non-Western philosophy I've heard is either from Chinese Confucianism (which personally I don't really like as a Korean, Korea has a long history of dealing with the problems of Confucianism for centuries), or from Buddhist/Zoroastianist/Islam religious literature (which I'm hesitant to read, since I don't have much of a religious background and think it's kind of superfluous, although I get why its existence is necessary) Maybe I just need to open my mind more, but as others have said I don't have much time left to cram other things into my (already very slow) hobby of reading continental philosophy. Hell, even most philosophers outside of Western countries doesn't really seem to look at non-Western philosophy that seriously. (Maybe it's because it's a Western thing to be a philsopher as a profession?) Chinese philosophers like Yuk Hui might be currently trying the synthesis of Western and Eastern thought, but it still seems like a long way to go (plus my objections on Confucianism).
  - keiferski 5y ago
    Three points: 1. The division of philosophy and religion into separate camps is a modern thing. It doesn’t hold up very well to scrutiny, either; much of what we consider “Western secular” values and ideas are really just modifications and reinterpretations of old Christian and Greco-Roman ideas. I recommend the book A Secular Age by Charles Taylor if you are interested in how this process has gone (and continues to go.) 2. There are extensive and thorough philosophical traditions in the Islamic world, Russian world, Indian world, and East Asia (especially China and Japan.) I really wouldn’t brush all of these away so quickly. 3. You might find the Kyoto School interesting and a good entry point. They attempted to synthesize much of Eastern and Western thought.
    - cyber_kinetist 5y ago
      Thanks for the suggestions. Reading up on the Kyoto School right now. Also added A Secular Age on the reading list, it seems really interesting.
      - keiferski 5y ago
        No problem! Also, A Secular Age is a huge tome, so you might want to start with How Not to Be Secular by James K. A. Smith. It's essentially a summary and reading guide to the book.
sammyq 5y ago
Those are good recommendations though mostly modern. However, they’re notoriously known to be difficult readings for most people, even with a guide.
- ldjkfkdsjnv 5y ago
  Yeah. One thing I didn't mention, is that I generally will spend 6 - 8 months or more on a book. I'm not always in the right state of mind to read, and often I can spend a really long time on one passage. I don't really see finishing the book as a goal, just to peel back the layers and try as hard as possible to understand the depth. For some reason German philosophy has always caught my thought process. It started with Nietzsche, and then went outward from there.
PradeetPatel 5y ago
Thank you for the list, I've been trying to expand my philosophy horizon by reading non-European philosophers over last few months. I don't suppose anyone have any recommendations from Africa or the Polynesian people?
- ldjkfkdsjnv 5y ago
  Reading through your past comments, this one above looks like a thinly veiled political statement
- FranzFerdiNaN 5y ago
  The excellent podcast History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps did a whole series on African philosophy: https://historyofphilosophy.net/series/africana-philosophy https://historyofphilosophy.net/series/africana-philosophy And Bryan van Norden, a professor of Chinese and comparative philosophy, made a reading list for non-western philosophy: http://www.bryanvannorden.com/suggestions-for-further-reading?s=09 http://www.bryanvannorden.com/suggestions-for-further-readin...
timoth3y 5y ago
That's very interesting. I take the exact opposite approach. I start by reading wide surveys and overviews and then dig deep (both original works and commentary) into areas and writers the resonate with me personally. Some of my deeper dives have included Camus, Epictetus & Seneca, Popper and Spinoza. It's a pretty eclectic mix, and few would consider these foundational authors, but their works have had a great deal of influence on me personally.
- ldjkfkdsjnv 5y ago
  I think sometimes its a little masochistic, since not all of the material will be interesting. Part of the drive is knowing that these works offer some of the most depth of human thought known to man. My thinking is it would be a shame to live and not experience just a piece of what they have to offer. On my list are also the great epics, the Illiad and Odyssey
curiousgal 5y ago
I just went for Sophie's World which sums everything up.
abdullahkhalids 5y ago
Why should I read these decades, centuries, millennia old books as a beginner [1]? In no other field are beginners asked to read old primary texts. This is my general criticism of philosophers [2] and the way they have constructed their discipline. In physics/biology/economics/etc a super smart person comes along and does some excellent work. Then later on, other smart people learn the stuff and build upon it, and rewrite it to make it better. Modern textbooks on General Relativity are an order of magnitude better than what Einstein wrote. Why has no one understood Nietzsche, and written a better and more understandable version of Nietzsche's work? And why is everyone not reading that? [1] I have read some/part of the books you mention. [2] As a physics phd, I have engaged in and enjoyed and found useful practical philosophy around issues of epistemology.
- andi999 5y ago
  Agree. It is even worse, here you have to learn Latin and old Greek so you can read the original texts. It is believed that the translations are not accurate (due to the problem that multiple words can be used and people shd know if exactly the same concept was meant or not). Somehow this seems to imply that these text are closer to poetry than ideas.
- Veen 5y ago
  > Why should I read these decades, centuries, millennia old books as a beginner [1]? In no other field are beginners asked to read old primary texts. One possible answer to this question is the same as to the question: Why look at old paintings, read old novels and poetry, watch old plays, and study history? For me, it's partly because I am interested in what humans have created and thought in the past. It's partly because these works are often beautiful—an argument can be as beautiful as a work of art—and studying beautiful things is its own reward. Whether they are true or not is another matter, but just as it's useful to read what other cultures in our own time think about a topic, it's useful to read about what people from other times thought. "The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there." You can design a course of study that focuses purely on modern logic and epistemology etc if that's what you prefer. But philosophy is not a science (however much philosophers like to think it is) and its not maths. It is a branch of the humanities, and should be evaluated in similar terms to literary studies or history, not biology or physics.
throw0101a 5y ago
> Life is so short, read nothing but the cornerstones (this may not be that) of western thought. The cornerstone of Western thought would be more Aristotle, especially given the influence he had on Christian/Catholic thought via the Scholastics (Aquinas). Western values are Christian values (Catholic and later Protestant): * https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/nov/21/dominion-making-western-mind-tom-holland-review https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/nov/21/dominion-makin... * https://historyforatheists.com/2020/01/tom-holland-dominion/ https://historyforatheists.com/2020/01/tom-holland-dominion/ * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_WEIRDest_People_in_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_WEIRDest_People_in_the_Wor...

kranner 5y ago

> Life is so short, read nothing but the cornerstones (this may not be that) of western thought. I'd like to recommend Bryan W Van Norden's book "Taking Back Philosophy: A Multicultural Manifesto" for those willing to concede that maybe life is not short enough to ignore everything but Western thought. https://www.amazon.com/Taking-Back-Philosophy-Multicultural-Manifesto/dp/0231184379 https://www.amazon.com/Taking-Back-Philosophy-Multicultural-... edit: my original comment was asking "Why only western thought?" I removed it as it wasn't substantial enough.

ldjkfkdsjnv 5y ago
With all due respect, please do not denigrate western philosophy by asserting its ubiquity is due to eurocentrism.
- kranner 5y ago
  Not denigrating Western Philosophy at all -- whose ubiquity may well be due to Eurocentrism primarily -- just saying there's more to look at elsewhere if one is interested in philosophy in general.
  - cyber_kinetist 5y ago
    Any specific pointers on what books you should read? (Apart from the popular books / manifestos, I’m searching for real alternatives)
    - kranner 5y ago
      The Further Reading sections at the ends of volumes 3 (Philosophy in the Islamic World) and 5 (Classical Indian Philosophy) by Peter Adamson et al are great.
cyber_kinetist 5y ago
The problem seems to be that, most non-Western philosophy I've heard is either from Chinese Confucianism (which personally I don't really like as a Korean, Korea has a long history of dealing with the problems of Confucianism for centuries), or from Buddhist/Zoroastianist/Islam religious literature (which I'm hesitant to read, since I don't have much of a religious background and think it's kind of superfluous, although I get why its existence is necessary) Maybe I just need to open my mind more, but as others have said I don't have much time left to cram other things into my (already very slow) hobby of reading continental philosophy. Hell, even most philosophers outside of Western countries doesn't really seem to look at non-Western philosophy that seriously. (Maybe it's because it's a Western thing to be a philsopher as a profession?) Chinese philosophers like Yuk Hui might be currently trying the synthesis of Western and Eastern thought, but it still seems like a long way to go (plus my objections on Confucianism).
- keiferski 5y ago
  Three points: 1. The division of philosophy and religion into separate camps is a modern thing. It doesn’t hold up very well to scrutiny, either; much of what we consider “Western secular” values and ideas are really just modifications and reinterpretations of old Christian and Greco-Roman ideas. I recommend the book A Secular Age by Charles Taylor if you are interested in how this process has gone (and continues to go.) 2. There are extensive and thorough philosophical traditions in the Islamic world, Russian world, Indian world, and East Asia (especially China and Japan.) I really wouldn’t brush all of these away so quickly. 3. You might find the Kyoto School interesting and a good entry point. They attempted to synthesize much of Eastern and Western thought.
  - cyber_kinetist 5y ago
    Thanks for the suggestions. Reading up on the Kyoto School right now. Also added A Secular Age on the reading list, it seems really interesting.
    - keiferski 5y ago
      No problem! Also, A Secular Age is a huge tome, so you might want to start with How Not to Be Secular by James K. A. Smith. It's essentially a summary and reading guide to the book.

sammyq 5y ago

Those are good recommendations though mostly modern. However, they’re notoriously known to be difficult readings for most people, even with a guide.

ldjkfkdsjnv 5y ago
Yeah. One thing I didn't mention, is that I generally will spend 6 - 8 months or more on a book. I'm not always in the right state of mind to read, and often I can spend a really long time on one passage. I don't really see finishing the book as a goal, just to peel back the layers and try as hard as possible to understand the depth. For some reason German philosophy has always caught my thought process. It started with Nietzsche, and then went outward from there.

PradeetPatel 5y ago

Thank you for the list, I've been trying to expand my philosophy horizon by reading non-European philosophers over last few months. I don't suppose anyone have any recommendations from Africa or the Polynesian people?

ldjkfkdsjnv 5y ago
Reading through your past comments, this one above looks like a thinly veiled political statement
FranzFerdiNaN 5y ago
The excellent podcast History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps did a whole series on African philosophy: https://historyofphilosophy.net/series/africana-philosophy https://historyofphilosophy.net/series/africana-philosophy And Bryan van Norden, a professor of Chinese and comparative philosophy, made a reading list for non-western philosophy: http://www.bryanvannorden.com/suggestions-for-further-reading?s=09 http://www.bryanvannorden.com/suggestions-for-further-readin...

timoth3y 5y ago

That's very interesting. I take the exact opposite approach. I start by reading wide surveys and overviews and then dig deep (both original works and commentary) into areas and writers the resonate with me personally. Some of my deeper dives have included Camus, Epictetus & Seneca, Popper and Spinoza. It's a pretty eclectic mix, and few would consider these foundational authors, but their works have had a great deal of influence on me personally.

ldjkfkdsjnv 5y ago
I think sometimes its a little masochistic, since not all of the material will be interesting. Part of the drive is knowing that these works offer some of the most depth of human thought known to man. My thinking is it would be a shame to live and not experience just a piece of what they have to offer. On my list are also the great epics, the Illiad and Odyssey

curiousgal 5y ago

I just went for Sophie's World which sums everything up.

abdullahkhalids 5y ago

Why should I read these decades, centuries, millennia old books as a beginner [1]? In no other field are beginners asked to read old primary texts. This is my general criticism of philosophers [2] and the way they have constructed their discipline. In physics/biology/economics/etc a super smart person comes along and does some excellent work. Then later on, other smart people learn the stuff and build upon it, and rewrite it to make it better. Modern textbooks on General Relativity are an order of magnitude better than what Einstein wrote. Why has no one understood Nietzsche, and written a better and more understandable version of Nietzsche's work? And why is everyone not reading that? [1] I have read some/part of the books you mention. [2] As a physics phd, I have engaged in and enjoyed and found useful practical philosophy around issues of epistemology.

andi999 5y ago
Agree. It is even worse, here you have to learn Latin and old Greek so you can read the original texts. It is believed that the translations are not accurate (due to the problem that multiple words can be used and people shd know if exactly the same concept was meant or not). Somehow this seems to imply that these text are closer to poetry than ideas.
Veen 5y ago
> Why should I read these decades, centuries, millennia old books as a beginner [1]? In no other field are beginners asked to read old primary texts. One possible answer to this question is the same as to the question: Why look at old paintings, read old novels and poetry, watch old plays, and study history? For me, it's partly because I am interested in what humans have created and thought in the past. It's partly because these works are often beautiful—an argument can be as beautiful as a work of art—and studying beautiful things is its own reward. Whether they are true or not is another matter, but just as it's useful to read what other cultures in our own time think about a topic, it's useful to read about what people from other times thought. "The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there." You can design a course of study that focuses purely on modern logic and epistemology etc if that's what you prefer. But philosophy is not a science (however much philosophers like to think it is) and its not maths. It is a branch of the humanities, and should be evaluated in similar terms to literary studies or history, not biology or physics.

throw0101a 5y ago

> Life is so short, read nothing but the cornerstones (this may not be that) of western thought. The cornerstone of Western thought would be more Aristotle, especially given the influence he had on Christian/Catholic thought via the Scholastics (Aquinas). Western values are Christian values (Catholic and later Protestant): * https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/nov/21/dominion-making-western-mind-tom-holland-review https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/nov/21/dominion-makin... * https://historyforatheists.com/2020/01/tom-holland-dominion/ https://historyforatheists.com/2020/01/tom-holland-dominion/ * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_WEIRDest_People_in_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_WEIRDest_People_in_the_Wor...