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Macworld considers this change to be a very minor concession to Apple's anti-steering rules: > It doesn’t sound like the new guidelines will allow the apps to

Macworld considers this change to be a very minor concession to Apple's anti-steering rules: > It doesn’t sound like the new guidelines will allow the apps to even state that subscriptions or purchases are available on the web. Rather, the apps will be allowed to, “share a single link to their website to help users set up and manage their account,” according to Apple’s release. That account management might include purchasing or renewing subscriptions, but it sounds from Apple’s release as if the single link in the app may not be allowed to say “subscribe for just $9.99 a month” and instead must say something like “Account Management” or “set up your account.” https://www.macworld.com/article/354963/japan-fair-trade-commission-forces-apple-to-slightly-loosen-restrictions-on-reader-apps.html https://www.macworld.com/article/354963/japan-fair-trade-com... If this is the case, the change simply does not go far enough. Users should be able to get full information in the app on all of the payment options for a given service, and how the money they pay gets distributed. Any less is anti-competitive.

dylan604 5y ago
>Users should be able to get full information in the app on all of the payment options for a given service Why? Do you know how the money is distributed when you buy groceries, when you buy a meal at a restaurant, when you buy your clothes, when you buy a book, etc? Does that get you riled up to not know? Why is it different?
- ece 5y ago
  I have a choice about where to buy groceries, a meal, clothes, and books. Is it really that hard to understand Apple's hegemony on iOS should be regulated similar to the way Microsoft was.. I guess for Apple stockholders it might be different.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Ask people that live in towns where Walmart has cleared out all of the other stores to see what choices are. When people sell items through big box stores, those stores buy the items at wholesale. What happens if Apple changes from the 30% structure to a 50% wholesale/retail?
    - ece 5y ago
      You'll notice I compared with Microsoft, another maker of an OS. I don't think analogies work that well when comparing something that is Turing complete vs. not. Fitness apps compete with gyms, movie apps compete with theaters, learning apps might even compete with schools, etc.. an OS provides the capabilities to do all of these things. I'm sorry, but your analogies make zero sense to me. Apple should be regulated at least the same way Microsoft was, and the Open App Markets Act does this, and I'm glad to see it. I don't think small changes like this are really the way to fix what's wrong with iOS and Android, even though the latter is more open.
      - dylan604 5y ago
        Group think here appears to be that apps are not retail products. What are they? Services? Group think here is also that Adobe is evilCorp #1 because of their software as a service model vs a single purchase. Yet that goes contrary to the app devs wanting to constantly hit the user for in-app purchases. It's software as a service in a different manner, but still gotta keep paying to keep using. App devs should have an honest conversation with the devs of pre-app days. You had to have a release completed so that it could be sent to the facilities to make the dis[c|k]s. These had to be way more complete than today with the ability to 100% re-download the actual product that has had extra time to complete. There's also the cost involved in getting those physical objects made. Today's app devs have it so much easier, and yet want so much more.
        ece 5y ago
        I think devices, OSes, apps and services are all retail products. The extent to which Apple sells a locked down device is the the extent to which it's trying to unfairly control multiple secondary markets. It's irrelevant how easy or hard developers have it, the consumer can pick if they want to pay once or have a subscription for the feature set they want in apps.
        dylan604 5y ago
        >The extent to which Apple sells a locked down device The closed nature is the only argument that carries water with me as far as being anti-competitive. Every business has to pay to have their product distributed, and the 30% just never sounded unfair to me.
  - smabie 5y ago
    I mean you have a choice where to buy "reader apps" as well.
- enragedcacti 5y ago
  After a purchase the app developer is the one providing content, customer service, app updates and bug fixes, etc. It stands to reason that a customer is doing business with the App developer not Apple. In all of your examples, they are products where the company setting the rules of the transaction is the same one that is standing by the product itself. It seems completely reasonable to me that the provider of a good or service should be able to communicate freely and directly with their customer about something as core to the transaction as their options for paying for the service.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    When you buy those products previously mentioned, what options do you have to pay? You don't pay Nike for the shoes when you buy them from the store. You don't pay the author or the publisher for the book. Those people have already been paid by the vendor at the wholesale rate. You are reimbursing the store plus their markup.
    - simondotau 5y ago
      The retail analogy doesn't quite fit. Apple isn't just the shoe retailer[0] they're also the company which supplied Nike with all of the sewing machines and stitching yarn that was used to assemble shoes made with Nike leather and rubber. Nike signed an agreement with Apple which says that in return for an endless supply of sewing machines and yarn, Nike must split the final revenue with Apple. [0] And even retailer isn't quite right. What the App Store does is less akin to the wholesale-retail model and more like the agency sales model.
      - tommilukkarinen 5y ago
        I use as little Apple technology as possible, using frameworks like https://www.electronjs.org/ https://www.electronjs.org/ - to reduce my dependency on Apple. App Store is not unique, it is a platform copied from other vendors such as Nokia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovi_(Nokia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovi_(Nokia). Users pay for the phones. There is no 'merit' left for Apple (or Google) to collect fees or to impose rules.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dang 5y ago
We've changed the URL to that article from https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/09/japan-fair-trade-commission-closes-app-store-investigation/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/09/japan-fair-trade-comm..., which is a press release. Thanks! https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=corporate%20press%20release%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

dylan604 5y ago

>Users should be able to get full information in the app on all of the payment options for a given service Why? Do you know how the money is distributed when you buy groceries, when you buy a meal at a restaurant, when you buy your clothes, when you buy a book, etc? Does that get you riled up to not know? Why is it different?

ece 5y ago
I have a choice about where to buy groceries, a meal, clothes, and books. Is it really that hard to understand Apple's hegemony on iOS should be regulated similar to the way Microsoft was.. I guess for Apple stockholders it might be different.
- dylan604 5y ago
  Ask people that live in towns where Walmart has cleared out all of the other stores to see what choices are. When people sell items through big box stores, those stores buy the items at wholesale. What happens if Apple changes from the 30% structure to a 50% wholesale/retail?
  - ece 5y ago
    You'll notice I compared with Microsoft, another maker of an OS. I don't think analogies work that well when comparing something that is Turing complete vs. not. Fitness apps compete with gyms, movie apps compete with theaters, learning apps might even compete with schools, etc.. an OS provides the capabilities to do all of these things. I'm sorry, but your analogies make zero sense to me. Apple should be regulated at least the same way Microsoft was, and the Open App Markets Act does this, and I'm glad to see it. I don't think small changes like this are really the way to fix what's wrong with iOS and Android, even though the latter is more open.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      Group think here appears to be that apps are not retail products. What are they? Services? Group think here is also that Adobe is evilCorp #1 because of their software as a service model vs a single purchase. Yet that goes contrary to the app devs wanting to constantly hit the user for in-app purchases. It's software as a service in a different manner, but still gotta keep paying to keep using. App devs should have an honest conversation with the devs of pre-app days. You had to have a release completed so that it could be sent to the facilities to make the dis[c|k]s. These had to be way more complete than today with the ability to 100% re-download the actual product that has had extra time to complete. There's also the cost involved in getting those physical objects made. Today's app devs have it so much easier, and yet want so much more.
      - ece 5y ago
        I think devices, OSes, apps and services are all retail products. The extent to which Apple sells a locked down device is the the extent to which it's trying to unfairly control multiple secondary markets. It's irrelevant how easy or hard developers have it, the consumer can pick if they want to pay once or have a subscription for the feature set they want in apps.
        dylan604 5y ago
        >The extent to which Apple sells a locked down device The closed nature is the only argument that carries water with me as far as being anti-competitive. Every business has to pay to have their product distributed, and the 30% just never sounded unfair to me.
- smabie 5y ago
  I mean you have a choice where to buy "reader apps" as well.
enragedcacti 5y ago
After a purchase the app developer is the one providing content, customer service, app updates and bug fixes, etc. It stands to reason that a customer is doing business with the App developer not Apple. In all of your examples, they are products where the company setting the rules of the transaction is the same one that is standing by the product itself. It seems completely reasonable to me that the provider of a good or service should be able to communicate freely and directly with their customer about something as core to the transaction as their options for paying for the service.
- dylan604 5y ago
  When you buy those products previously mentioned, what options do you have to pay? You don't pay Nike for the shoes when you buy them from the store. You don't pay the author or the publisher for the book. Those people have already been paid by the vendor at the wholesale rate. You are reimbursing the store plus their markup.
  - simondotau 5y ago
    The retail analogy doesn't quite fit. Apple isn't just the shoe retailer[0] they're also the company which supplied Nike with all of the sewing machines and stitching yarn that was used to assemble shoes made with Nike leather and rubber. Nike signed an agreement with Apple which says that in return for an endless supply of sewing machines and yarn, Nike must split the final revenue with Apple. [0] And even retailer isn't quite right. What the App Store does is less akin to the wholesale-retail model and more like the agency sales model.
    - tommilukkarinen 5y ago
      I use as little Apple technology as possible, using frameworks like https://www.electronjs.org/ https://www.electronjs.org/ - to reduce my dependency on Apple. App Store is not unique, it is a platform copied from other vendors such as Nokia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovi_(Nokia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovi_(Nokia). Users pay for the phones. There is no 'merit' left for Apple (or Google) to collect fees or to impose rules.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

dang 5y ago

We've changed the URL to that article from https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/09/japan-fair-trade-commission-closes-app-store-investigation/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/09/japan-fair-trade-comm..., which is a press release. Thanks! https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=corporate%20press%20release%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...