6 ms·

As Johnny Harris so eloquently points out in his "The REAL Reason McDonalds Ice Cream Machines Are Always Broken" video, other big brands like Wendy's use Taylo

As Johnny Harris so eloquently points out in his "The REAL Reason McDonalds Ice Cream Machines Are Always Broken" video, other big brands like Wendy's use Taylor brand machines without problem or controversy. It's only the McDonalds machines that break because they are, in fact, designed to break, to help McDonalds corporate milk their franchisees. Pun intended.

skeeter2020 5y ago
One point: the machines aren't "broken" per se; typically the maintenance cycle does not complete and the machine only shows a very cryptic error message. The franchisee then needs to call out a Taylor service rep, wait for them and pay an expensive call-out charge. THe underlying issue is typically easily resolved; something like the hopper was too full of product so the heating cycle didn't get to the required temp; remove some and run it again". So the reason they're always broken is they're not broken but the restauranteur has no way of knowing or resolving the issue.
- hunter2_ 5y ago
  I would consider "broken" and "SOP doesn't produce expected result" to be synonymous in most cases including this one.
  - darkerside 5y ago
    Intentionally crippled versus broken seems like a fair distinction
    - iforgotpassword 5y ago
      > intentionally broken versus broken Ftfy. It's definitely a fair or rather relevant distinction for the investigation, but for the end user, it's pretty much the same, especially if you're limited to using only that one specific machine.
      - darkerside 5y ago
        It was a reference to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crippleware https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crippleware As an end user, I can tell when I'm using it, and it annoys me. Even when I don't have large revenue streams depending on it.
- sk5t 5y ago
  > something like the hopper was too full of product Shouldn't then there be a guide or actual limiter for maximum hopper fill level based on ambient temperature, or just a TSB, rather than perpetual service calls?
  - josefx 5y ago
    Taylor makes money from these service calls and the franchise owners have to use the machines mandated by McDonalds. There is absolutely no motivation for Taylor to kill this cash cow.
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      Milking that hopper for all it's worth. So to speak.
- sumedh 5y ago
  Does the franchisee know why the machine is not working or can he/she do some basic trouble shooting to fix the issue, if not then it is broken.
  - frombody 5y ago
    No, they don't know why it's broken. The cleaning cycle doesn't complete during the night, usually because the hopper is too full, and when they come in the next day they just run the 4 hour cleaning cycle multiple times until the cryptic error goes away. As the video showed, when someone invented an add-on for the machines to display human readable error messages, they got attacked with a lawsuit.
    - jimbob45 5y ago
      >In a recent legal victory, a judge awarded a temporary restraining order against Taylor after Kytch had alleged in a complaint that the McFlurry machine manufacturer had gotten its hands on a Kytch Solution Devices with the express intention of learning its trade secrets. The complaint also alleged that Taylor had told McDonald’s and its franchisees to stop using Kytch machines on the grounds that they were dangerous, and that the company had begun development on its own version of the Kytch system at the same time. I think you have it backwards. However, you're still right in essence, since Taylor seems to be attempting to break compatibility with the Kytch machines. Sounds a lot like another company we talk about here...
      - thaumasiotes 5y ago
        > a judge awarded a temporary restraining order against Taylor after Kytch had alleged in a complaint that the McFlurry machine manufacturer had gotten its hands on a Kytch Solution Devices with the express intention of learning its trade secrets. This seems like a strong argument that the concept of trade secrets should be done away with.
        drewzero1 5y ago
        And in turn, the Kytch device is an attempt to crack the trade secrets of the Taylor machines requiring service calls. I have a hard time rooting for either side on this one.
- tedunangst 5y ago
  What's McDonald's corporate's cut of the call out charge, the alleged motivation here?
  - MichaelZuo 5y ago
    Perhaps they signed a deal with Taylor to boost some KPI?
DSMan195276 5y ago
That video was good, and it's been a few months since I've seen it, but I remember being a bit unsatisfied about the point you mentioned. It seemed implied to me that Wendy's and other places use the same kind of Taylor machines and it was never really explained why they don't break. I understand the idea that McDonalds requires using the Taylor machine which creates some of an incentive against fixing it, but it wasn't clear to me if the other companies don't require their use as well (which would create the same incentive), and even if they don't it doesn't really explain what's different about those machines since clearly they are functioning a lot better.
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  McDonalds uses a different model than the other fast food places.
  - DSMan195276 5y ago
    Sure, but then why doesn't Taylor just do the same thing with the other models?
    - daed 5y ago
      Perhaps the other companies don’t mandate usage of a single machine?
      - DSMan195276 5y ago
        I don't know, that's what I'm asking. The video doesn't make it clear what's going on with those, and Google doesn't really tell me anything either.
        rincebrain 5y ago
        My understanding from one of the articles was that McDonalds wanted them to make a special model that did away with some portion of the manual process in favor of press-button maintenance, and they did. Unfortunately, it turns out that it's hard to replicate the reliability and adaptability of human manual labor mechanically sometimes.
sircastor 5y ago
The video in question, if you haven’t seen it: https://youtu.be/SrDEtSlqJC4 https://youtu.be/SrDEtSlqJC4
- malloc2048 5y ago
  For those who rather listen. The podcast 'The Sporkful' has an episode called 'Hacking McDonald's Broken Ice Cream Machines' (And I just noticed when looking up the link, they also have video) https://www.sporkful.com/hacking-mcdonalds-broken-ice-cream-machines/ https://www.sporkful.com/hacking-mcdonalds-broken-ice-cream-... And if you both don't want to watch video, nor listen to the podcast episode, the page has a full transcript of the episode. I found it to be a pretty interesting story.
weeblewobble 5y ago
I'm not convinced. McDonalds isn't in the business of disappointing their customers.
derriz 5y ago
I'm not really satisfied with this explanation - it feels like a version of the broken window fallacy. Thinking about McDonalds in aggregate, broken machines mean less revenue and more expense (to pay for Taylor call-outs). On a net basis a double loss to the organization as a whole. Even if these losses fall more on the franchise holders than the company itself (although the company also suffers from the loss in revenue) - creating an incentive for the company, it'd doesn't make much sense to me. This would amount to a scheme to effectively increase franchise fees. Given the huge inefficiency involved as well as the cost of the reputation damage, it doesn't make sense to me when there are far more efficient mechanisms available to the company which would achieve the same thing.
- TheCoelacanth 5y ago
  Broken window is the idea that the economy as a whole is better off because of a broken window. That's fallacious. Some people benefited because they were paid to replace the window, but the economy as a whole is poorer. The original owner is out the cost of a window. This isn't that fallacy. They aren't saying that there is an overall benefit to the window being broken. They are saying that McDonalds benefits at the expense of franchise owners.
justsomeuser 5y ago
All those franchises are just making a flurry outta nothin
- justsomeuser 5y ago
  (McFlurry)

skeeter2020 5y ago

One point: the machines aren't "broken" per se; typically the maintenance cycle does not complete and the machine only shows a very cryptic error message. The franchisee then needs to call out a Taylor service rep, wait for them and pay an expensive call-out charge. THe underlying issue is typically easily resolved; something like the hopper was too full of product so the heating cycle didn't get to the required temp; remove some and run it again". So the reason they're always broken is they're not broken but the restauranteur has no way of knowing or resolving the issue.

hunter2_ 5y ago
I would consider "broken" and "SOP doesn't produce expected result" to be synonymous in most cases including this one.
- darkerside 5y ago
  Intentionally crippled versus broken seems like a fair distinction
  - iforgotpassword 5y ago
    > intentionally broken versus broken Ftfy. It's definitely a fair or rather relevant distinction for the investigation, but for the end user, it's pretty much the same, especially if you're limited to using only that one specific machine.
    - darkerside 5y ago
      It was a reference to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crippleware https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crippleware As an end user, I can tell when I'm using it, and it annoys me. Even when I don't have large revenue streams depending on it.
sk5t 5y ago
> something like the hopper was too full of product Shouldn't then there be a guide or actual limiter for maximum hopper fill level based on ambient temperature, or just a TSB, rather than perpetual service calls?
- josefx 5y ago
  Taylor makes money from these service calls and the franchise owners have to use the machines mandated by McDonalds. There is absolutely no motivation for Taylor to kill this cash cow.
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    Milking that hopper for all it's worth. So to speak.
sumedh 5y ago
Does the franchisee know why the machine is not working or can he/she do some basic trouble shooting to fix the issue, if not then it is broken.
- frombody 5y ago
  No, they don't know why it's broken. The cleaning cycle doesn't complete during the night, usually because the hopper is too full, and when they come in the next day they just run the 4 hour cleaning cycle multiple times until the cryptic error goes away. As the video showed, when someone invented an add-on for the machines to display human readable error messages, they got attacked with a lawsuit.
  - jimbob45 5y ago
    >In a recent legal victory, a judge awarded a temporary restraining order against Taylor after Kytch had alleged in a complaint that the McFlurry machine manufacturer had gotten its hands on a Kytch Solution Devices with the express intention of learning its trade secrets. The complaint also alleged that Taylor had told McDonald’s and its franchisees to stop using Kytch machines on the grounds that they were dangerous, and that the company had begun development on its own version of the Kytch system at the same time. I think you have it backwards. However, you're still right in essence, since Taylor seems to be attempting to break compatibility with the Kytch machines. Sounds a lot like another company we talk about here...
    - thaumasiotes 5y ago
      > a judge awarded a temporary restraining order against Taylor after Kytch had alleged in a complaint that the McFlurry machine manufacturer had gotten its hands on a Kytch Solution Devices with the express intention of learning its trade secrets. This seems like a strong argument that the concept of trade secrets should be done away with.
      - drewzero1 5y ago
        And in turn, the Kytch device is an attempt to crack the trade secrets of the Taylor machines requiring service calls. I have a hard time rooting for either side on this one.
tedunangst 5y ago
What's McDonald's corporate's cut of the call out charge, the alleged motivation here?
- MichaelZuo 5y ago
  Perhaps they signed a deal with Taylor to boost some KPI?

DSMan195276 5y ago

That video was good, and it's been a few months since I've seen it, but I remember being a bit unsatisfied about the point you mentioned. It seemed implied to me that Wendy's and other places use the same kind of Taylor machines and it was never really explained why they don't break. I understand the idea that McDonalds requires using the Taylor machine which creates some of an incentive against fixing it, but it wasn't clear to me if the other companies don't require their use as well (which would create the same incentive), and even if they don't it doesn't really explain what's different about those machines since clearly they are functioning a lot better.

colinmhayes 5y ago
McDonalds uses a different model than the other fast food places.
- DSMan195276 5y ago
  Sure, but then why doesn't Taylor just do the same thing with the other models?
  - daed 5y ago
    Perhaps the other companies don’t mandate usage of a single machine?
    - DSMan195276 5y ago
      I don't know, that's what I'm asking. The video doesn't make it clear what's going on with those, and Google doesn't really tell me anything either.
      - rincebrain 5y ago
        My understanding from one of the articles was that McDonalds wanted them to make a special model that did away with some portion of the manual process in favor of press-button maintenance, and they did. Unfortunately, it turns out that it's hard to replicate the reliability and adaptability of human manual labor mechanically sometimes.

sircastor 5y ago

The video in question, if you haven’t seen it: https://youtu.be/SrDEtSlqJC4 https://youtu.be/SrDEtSlqJC4

malloc2048 5y ago
For those who rather listen. The podcast 'The Sporkful' has an episode called 'Hacking McDonald's Broken Ice Cream Machines' (And I just noticed when looking up the link, they also have video) https://www.sporkful.com/hacking-mcdonalds-broken-ice-cream-machines/ https://www.sporkful.com/hacking-mcdonalds-broken-ice-cream-... And if you both don't want to watch video, nor listen to the podcast episode, the page has a full transcript of the episode. I found it to be a pretty interesting story.

weeblewobble 5y ago

I'm not convinced. McDonalds isn't in the business of disappointing their customers.

derriz 5y ago

I'm not really satisfied with this explanation - it feels like a version of the broken window fallacy. Thinking about McDonalds in aggregate, broken machines mean less revenue and more expense (to pay for Taylor call-outs). On a net basis a double loss to the organization as a whole. Even if these losses fall more on the franchise holders than the company itself (although the company also suffers from the loss in revenue) - creating an incentive for the company, it'd doesn't make much sense to me. This would amount to a scheme to effectively increase franchise fees. Given the huge inefficiency involved as well as the cost of the reputation damage, it doesn't make sense to me when there are far more efficient mechanisms available to the company which would achieve the same thing.

TheCoelacanth 5y ago
Broken window is the idea that the economy as a whole is better off because of a broken window. That's fallacious. Some people benefited because they were paid to replace the window, but the economy as a whole is poorer. The original owner is out the cost of a window. This isn't that fallacy. They aren't saying that there is an overall benefit to the window being broken. They are saying that McDonalds benefits at the expense of franchise owners.

justsomeuser 5y ago

All those franchises are just making a flurry outta nothin

justsomeuser 5y ago
(McFlurry)