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I'll take the eccentric billionaire actually tackling real issues and making actual headway. People here are too narrow minded and have quarter to quarter short

I'll take the eccentric billionaire actually tackling real issues and making actual headway. People here are too narrow minded and have quarter to quarter short term memory disorder, seeming to forget that Musk and Tesla are the sole reason we have had the progress and momentum towards actually greener technologies, not simply greenwashed corporate nonsense that was churned out year after year without any was actual progress. Bezos is literally the greedy avatar of Edison in this race, who's only advances are only made through parasitic monopolies, tyranny, and his own ego. He literally walked out in a cowboy hat to tell the world "thank you for your money peasants!"

marricks 5y ago
I'm sorry but better energy storage and electric cars for the middle class isn't going save us. It's not progress, it's a distraction along the way to ecological collapse.
- Beldin 5y ago
  If electric cars are part is the solution, we need demand for infrastructure (mostly charging, but also maintenance expertise). Middle class-driven Teslas are sufficiently present to have induced building infrastructure, from which other classes can profit. If electric transportation is not part of the solution, you're right about that being a distraction.
- bperson 5y ago
  Maybe. It's always possible that as a civilization we are saddled with too many never-going-to-progress-until-we-stop-doing-x technologies. Maybe it's not a distraction, but using a market to develop a capability that will save billions.
- esarbe 5y ago
  You're quite right. I'm very hopeful that this will get trough to people. Someday.
- z3ncyberpunk 5y ago
  You're right it's going to be the industrial level where we're actually going to feel the effects, so i think I will still go with the person who's making a giant electric gigafactory to make electric cars not polluting entirely everything.
hutzlibu 5y ago
"forget that Musk and Tesla are the sole reason we have had the progress and momentum towards actually greener technologies" There are many things, that come to my mind with this statement, but I will just say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Because yes, he did gave momentum to the conservative car makers to get them to move their asses. But cars are only responsible for a tiny fraction of CO2 - and the whole green technology was kind of a thing before, with lots and lots of research about it all around the world. And implementing that research. Long before Musk was known outside a small bubble. It is just, that we are increasingly starting to see the effects of climate change that makes people act. I respect Musk for what he contributed. But I feel that glorifying him in this way, puts down all the other work in a unbalanced way. "Bezos is literally the greedy avatar of Edison in this race, who's only advances are only made through parasitic monopolies, tyranny, and his own ego." And I really hate to defend Bezos, but I do not think the success of Amazon comes out of a parasitic ego. But rather smart and efficient logistics. Incorporating robots and automatisation wherever possible. While exploiting the workforce, yeah, but Musk has not really a great record in that realm either.
- admax88qqq 5y ago
  > But cars are only responsible for a tiny fraction of CO2 Road vehicles account for 5% of global CO2 emissions. That's not a tiny fraction IMO. It's not huge, but road transportation alone (not counting shipping) account for 5X as much CO2 aviation. https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions-from-transport https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions-from-transport
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    In the context of the statement, ("sole reason..") I call it tiny. I mean cars are very visible, so any movement there helps with the public image that things can change. But he still was only one player in a comparitivly small segment, when green technology is so much bigger than just "cars". And "green cars" was and is much more than just "Tesla".
    - fshr 5y ago
FridayoLeary 5y ago
>not simply greenwashed corporate nonsense Isn't Musk the guy who crashed bitcoin after making a pile of money claiming it was dirty? How much pollution does just one of his mega-sized moon-mission rockets eject? Just for his personal (yes) entertainment. Rich sportsmen buy expensive cars. Super- rich businessmen play with rocket launches.
- relativ575 5y ago
  As the joke goes: "How to become millionaire in the airline industry? starting as billionaire". That speaks to the risky nature of airline business. Rocket business is even riskier. The market is small and is absurdly difficult to enter. Musk almost got bankrupted when Spacex failed to reach orbit after three tries in 2008. He went all in. Of the current crop of newly launched rocket companies -- Rocket Lab, Astra, Firefly, Relativity -- do you spot any super rich businessmen?
- manuelmoreale 5y ago
  If you really are interested in the answer to your question about pollution this is a good video to watch https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C4VHfmiwuv4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C4VHfmiwuv4
- z3ncyberpunk 5y ago
  About the same if not less pollution than every other rocket that's launched into space... For a fraction of the cost plus we get to reuse the materials.
WoahNoun 5y ago
Amazon has invested 10's of billions into wind farms, solar farms, hydrogen fuel cells, electric/hydrogen vehicles, etc.
- z3ncyberpunk 5y ago
  Cool and that tens of billions that you claim they dumped into research has done absolutely almost nothing for anyone at all. We don't have Amazon wind farms we don't have any Amazon solar panels and battery packs hooked up to our houses we don't have any EV cars from Amazon. We have a richer centric billionaire making really crappy low earth orbit rockets and stealing everyone's money.
  - WoahNoun 5y ago
    I didn't say it was research. Those billions went into wind and solar farms that are generating GWs of electricity right now. You can see a map of their global wind and solar farms here: https://sustainability.aboutamazon.com/environment/the-cloud https://sustainability.aboutamazon.com/environment/the-cloud
hellbannedguy 5y ago
Bezos making the world greener? His big trucks deliver a few packages daily to one, or two, households. Those electric fleet commercials seem like PR BS. If I ever do see an electric truck barreling up my street; I bet they will be heavily subsidized by our tax money in the form of credit. What is he doing that's green? That cowboy hat was pure ego, and vanity. Two bald men on a carnival ride might not be good for his single sexy time? All the money in the world, and you will never know which lady of the night truly loves you? He should have pulled a Zuckerburg.
- cma 5y ago
  > His big trucks deliver a few packages daily to one, or two, households. 20 people in your neighborhood take a 2.5 ton car to the store and back, or one truck drives around multiple neighborhoods and drops off packages. I don't think delivery is a clear cut loss
- kumarvvr 5y ago
  If you take into account the total fuel spent, per item, Amazon delivery would have less. Fuel spent per item is more or less the same upto the nearest warehouse, whether that is Amazons or walmart. Fuel spent per item from walmart to home is more because you have one car going to amazon for the item and a bunch of others. However, with Amazon, it is one truck delivering hundreds to a neighbourhood. Ao, in almost all cases, delivery by Amazon is better for the environment, or at worst, same as that of alternatives.
- z3ncyberpunk 5y ago
  I love when people complain about how Tesla receives tons of government subsidies, ALWAYS neglecting to mention that they're dropping the bucket compared to what the other gasoline car manufacturers get in subsidies every year...

marricks 5y ago

I'm sorry but better energy storage and electric cars for the middle class isn't going save us. It's not progress, it's a distraction along the way to ecological collapse.

Beldin 5y ago
If electric cars are part is the solution, we need demand for infrastructure (mostly charging, but also maintenance expertise). Middle class-driven Teslas are sufficiently present to have induced building infrastructure, from which other classes can profit. If electric transportation is not part of the solution, you're right about that being a distraction.
bperson 5y ago
Maybe. It's always possible that as a civilization we are saddled with too many never-going-to-progress-until-we-stop-doing-x technologies. Maybe it's not a distraction, but using a market to develop a capability that will save billions.
esarbe 5y ago
You're quite right. I'm very hopeful that this will get trough to people. Someday.
z3ncyberpunk 5y ago
You're right it's going to be the industrial level where we're actually going to feel the effects, so i think I will still go with the person who's making a giant electric gigafactory to make electric cars not polluting entirely everything.

hutzlibu 5y ago

"forget that Musk and Tesla are the sole reason we have had the progress and momentum towards actually greener technologies" There are many things, that come to my mind with this statement, but I will just say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Because yes, he did gave momentum to the conservative car makers to get them to move their asses. But cars are only responsible for a tiny fraction of CO2 - and the whole green technology was kind of a thing before, with lots and lots of research about it all around the world. And implementing that research. Long before Musk was known outside a small bubble. It is just, that we are increasingly starting to see the effects of climate change that makes people act. I respect Musk for what he contributed. But I feel that glorifying him in this way, puts down all the other work in a unbalanced way. "Bezos is literally the greedy avatar of Edison in this race, who's only advances are only made through parasitic monopolies, tyranny, and his own ego." And I really hate to defend Bezos, but I do not think the success of Amazon comes out of a parasitic ego. But rather smart and efficient logistics. Incorporating robots and automatisation wherever possible. While exploiting the workforce, yeah, but Musk has not really a great record in that realm either.

admax88qqq 5y ago
> But cars are only responsible for a tiny fraction of CO2 Road vehicles account for 5% of global CO2 emissions. That's not a tiny fraction IMO. It's not huge, but road transportation alone (not counting shipping) account for 5X as much CO2 aviation. https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions-from-transport https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions-from-transport
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  In the context of the statement, ("sole reason..") I call it tiny. I mean cars are very visible, so any movement there helps with the public image that things can change. But he still was only one player in a comparitivly small segment, when green technology is so much bigger than just "cars". And "green cars" was and is much more than just "Tesla".
  - fshr 5y ago

FridayoLeary 5y ago

>not simply greenwashed corporate nonsense Isn't Musk the guy who crashed bitcoin after making a pile of money claiming it was dirty? How much pollution does just one of his mega-sized moon-mission rockets eject? Just for his personal (yes) entertainment. Rich sportsmen buy expensive cars. Super- rich businessmen play with rocket launches.

relativ575 5y ago
As the joke goes: "How to become millionaire in the airline industry? starting as billionaire". That speaks to the risky nature of airline business. Rocket business is even riskier. The market is small and is absurdly difficult to enter. Musk almost got bankrupted when Spacex failed to reach orbit after three tries in 2008. He went all in. Of the current crop of newly launched rocket companies -- Rocket Lab, Astra, Firefly, Relativity -- do you spot any super rich businessmen?
manuelmoreale 5y ago
If you really are interested in the answer to your question about pollution this is a good video to watch https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C4VHfmiwuv4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C4VHfmiwuv4
z3ncyberpunk 5y ago
About the same if not less pollution than every other rocket that's launched into space... For a fraction of the cost plus we get to reuse the materials.

WoahNoun 5y ago

Amazon has invested 10's of billions into wind farms, solar farms, hydrogen fuel cells, electric/hydrogen vehicles, etc.

z3ncyberpunk 5y ago
Cool and that tens of billions that you claim they dumped into research has done absolutely almost nothing for anyone at all. We don't have Amazon wind farms we don't have any Amazon solar panels and battery packs hooked up to our houses we don't have any EV cars from Amazon. We have a richer centric billionaire making really crappy low earth orbit rockets and stealing everyone's money.
- WoahNoun 5y ago
  I didn't say it was research. Those billions went into wind and solar farms that are generating GWs of electricity right now. You can see a map of their global wind and solar farms here: https://sustainability.aboutamazon.com/environment/the-cloud https://sustainability.aboutamazon.com/environment/the-cloud

hellbannedguy 5y ago

Bezos making the world greener? His big trucks deliver a few packages daily to one, or two, households. Those electric fleet commercials seem like PR BS. If I ever do see an electric truck barreling up my street; I bet they will be heavily subsidized by our tax money in the form of credit. What is he doing that's green? That cowboy hat was pure ego, and vanity. Two bald men on a carnival ride might not be good for his single sexy time? All the money in the world, and you will never know which lady of the night truly loves you? He should have pulled a Zuckerburg.

cma 5y ago
> His big trucks deliver a few packages daily to one, or two, households. 20 people in your neighborhood take a 2.5 ton car to the store and back, or one truck drives around multiple neighborhoods and drops off packages. I don't think delivery is a clear cut loss
kumarvvr 5y ago
If you take into account the total fuel spent, per item, Amazon delivery would have less. Fuel spent per item is more or less the same upto the nearest warehouse, whether that is Amazons or walmart. Fuel spent per item from walmart to home is more because you have one car going to amazon for the item and a bunch of others. However, with Amazon, it is one truck delivering hundreds to a neighbourhood. Ao, in almost all cases, delivery by Amazon is better for the environment, or at worst, same as that of alternatives.
z3ncyberpunk 5y ago
I love when people complain about how Tesla receives tons of government subsidies, ALWAYS neglecting to mention that they're dropping the bucket compared to what the other gasoline car manufacturers get in subsidies every year...