5 ms·

It is not legal (and should not be legal) for people to force privately owned companies to publish speech that those companies don't want to publish. Hacker Ne

It is not legal (and should not be legal) for people to force privately owned companies to publish speech that those companies don't want to publish. Hacker News itself does this all the time; there's plenty of topics and conversations that aren't allowed to be posted here. And people get banned/silenced all the time. And that's good! That's what healthy moderation looks like.

mycodesucks 5y ago
Reddit is the opposite of what good moderation looks like.
- glonq 5y ago
  Wish I could gift you a platinum award for this plus 3 months of ycombinator gold /s
- seattle_spring 5y ago
  What are some examples of communities that employ good moderation, in your opinion?
mandeepj 5y ago
> It is not legal (and should not be legal) for people to force privately owned companies to publish speech that those companies don't want to publish. The platforms are public and used by millions.
- beebmam 5y ago
  Irrelevant legally, and the legal right to choose which speech a private entity publishes has been upheld in US courts since forever
petermcneeley 5y ago
I dont think this article questions if this is legal. Many companies do things that are Legal but are perhaps unethical or just not aligned with consumer interests. Your focus on legality to me is completely irrelevant at this stage. People want to discuss if this decision was a good idea or bad idea.
- beebmam 5y ago
  I don't care for moralizing. If you're not going to make a legal argument, I really couldn't care less. Companies aren't ethical; they obey laws. That's all they will do. Often, ethics become law. If you care about this at all, figure out what laws you want and organize to pass them.
  - petermcneeley 5y ago
    Since you replied so will I. Take example this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9072424 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9072424 It actually doesnt matter if its legal or not for them to be doing this. Whats important is for customers be fully aware of whats going on and to make a choice (purchase or not). The opinion of customers will undoubtably shape that companies future decisions. So companies do much more than obey laws and follow contract or EULA. The respond to their customers and users based on their perceptions and feedback.
  - chrismcb 5y ago
    Companies do more to than just obey laws. Or rather, what is legal or illegal isn't the issue. Places like Reddit have banned legal speech, just because. There was no law saying they had to. They did it because they wanted to. Making this a legal issue, it only discussing legal issues is weird
incadenza 5y ago
I agree, but it comes across as unprincipled and reactionary when this stuff is always done as a consequence of bad PR or high profile subs throwing a fit.
guilhas 5y ago
But they are not forcing, they are "working together" https://fullfact.org/blog/2020/nov/framework-combat-misinformation/ https://fullfact.org/blog/2020/nov/framework-combat-misinfor...
dredmorbius 5y ago
Though I support Reddit in its (very belated) actions here, I disagree with your statement. Restrictions on free speech and dissent ... or the overwhelming of channels, forums, and archives with propaganda and disinformation ... are both characteristics of abusive, power, regardless of its foundation. The origins of free speech princples emerged in response to religious and monarchical governmental abuses, for the most part (with some role played by lesser nobles and interests). With numerous commercial firms existing at scales which rival entire countries, the "private property" defence against any and all limitations on censorship simply isn't supportable. That said, a reasonable and principled policy with review, oversight, and appeals processes would be useful. Ultimately I see government regulation as a very likely necessity for communications platforms operating at significant scale.
CheezeIt 5y ago
But Hacker News doesn’t have healthy moderation. The mods let flagging run rampant.
effingwewt 5y ago
No, it's not. When people can downvote correct information without a reason, it makes HN objectively worse. And it happens all the time. Eventually you may find yourself on the receiving end, will you think censorship is good then?

mycodesucks 5y ago

Reddit is the opposite of what good moderation looks like.

glonq 5y ago
Wish I could gift you a platinum award for this plus 3 months of ycombinator gold /s
seattle_spring 5y ago
What are some examples of communities that employ good moderation, in your opinion?

mandeepj 5y ago

> It is not legal (and should not be legal) for people to force privately owned companies to publish speech that those companies don't want to publish. The platforms are public and used by millions.

beebmam 5y ago
Irrelevant legally, and the legal right to choose which speech a private entity publishes has been upheld in US courts since forever

petermcneeley 5y ago

I dont think this article questions if this is legal. Many companies do things that are Legal but are perhaps unethical or just not aligned with consumer interests. Your focus on legality to me is completely irrelevant at this stage. People want to discuss if this decision was a good idea or bad idea.

beebmam 5y ago
I don't care for moralizing. If you're not going to make a legal argument, I really couldn't care less. Companies aren't ethical; they obey laws. That's all they will do. Often, ethics become law. If you care about this at all, figure out what laws you want and organize to pass them.
- petermcneeley 5y ago
  Since you replied so will I. Take example this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9072424 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9072424 It actually doesnt matter if its legal or not for them to be doing this. Whats important is for customers be fully aware of whats going on and to make a choice (purchase or not). The opinion of customers will undoubtably shape that companies future decisions. So companies do much more than obey laws and follow contract or EULA. The respond to their customers and users based on their perceptions and feedback.
- chrismcb 5y ago
  Companies do more to than just obey laws. Or rather, what is legal or illegal isn't the issue. Places like Reddit have banned legal speech, just because. There was no law saying they had to. They did it because they wanted to. Making this a legal issue, it only discussing legal issues is weird

incadenza 5y ago

I agree, but it comes across as unprincipled and reactionary when this stuff is always done as a consequence of bad PR or high profile subs throwing a fit.

guilhas 5y ago

But they are not forcing, they are "working together" https://fullfact.org/blog/2020/nov/framework-combat-misinformation/ https://fullfact.org/blog/2020/nov/framework-combat-misinfor...

dredmorbius 5y ago

Though I support Reddit in its (very belated) actions here, I disagree with your statement. Restrictions on free speech and dissent ... or the overwhelming of channels, forums, and archives with propaganda and disinformation ... are both characteristics of abusive, power, regardless of its foundation. The origins of free speech princples emerged in response to religious and monarchical governmental abuses, for the most part (with some role played by lesser nobles and interests). With numerous commercial firms existing at scales which rival entire countries, the "private property" defence against any and all limitations on censorship simply isn't supportable. That said, a reasonable and principled policy with review, oversight, and appeals processes would be useful. Ultimately I see government regulation as a very likely necessity for communications platforms operating at significant scale.

CheezeIt 5y ago

But Hacker News doesn’t have healthy moderation. The mods let flagging run rampant.

effingwewt 5y ago

No, it's not. When people can downvote correct information without a reason, it makes HN objectively worse. And it happens all the time. Eventually you may find yourself on the receiving end, will you think censorship is good then?