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Ah yes, and now they'll move to an even more permissive platform which cares even less what they think. Oh, and wouldn't you know: those more permissive platfo

Ah yes, and now they'll move to an even more permissive platform which cares even less what they think. Oh, and wouldn't you know: those more permissive platforms are also where actual white nationalists, racists, and violent extremists hang out. Just an absolutely pathetic, counterproductive, downright stupid decision on behalf of reddit.

Blikkentrekker 5y ago
Reddit hardly cares about improving the world as much as it's own bottom line. The boycotts by several popular subreddits were hurting them, and that is all. — r/legaladvice is a known hotbed of misinformation of potentially drastic consequences that is allowed to stay, as that misinformation does not run enough across political tribalist lines to make people care.
- LordHelpUsAll 5y ago
  Anti-vax subreddits are removed due to the protests of pedo friendly subreddits such as r/NonoffendingMAP ???
  - Blikkentrekker 5y ago
    Hmmyes, everyone who disagrees with me is a pædophile too; I find that the world is so much easier to bare with that idea in mind.
- lp0_on_fire 5y ago
  > The boycotts by several popular subreddits were hurting them, and that is all. you mean boycotts by a bunch of petulant power mods. I sincerely doubt that rank and file reddit users really cared that much. Whether you agree with the outcome or not this is not the situation reddit admins should want to be in. They've just shown those mods that if they're loud enough that reddit will roll right over. Seems like a bold move to put yourself in that position on the eve of their IPO (if rumors are to be believed).
  - Blikkentrekker 5y ago
    Reddit wants to be somewhat decentralized and offload many of it's labor to users who provided it with free content. — This is the other side of it, I suppose. And yes, I mean that the boycots were organized by those in control of those subreddits.
    - lp0_on_fire 5y ago
      That might be what reddit wants not but if they decide to go public they'll have to convince shareholders why it's a good idea to leave the keys to the kingdom in the hands of a bunch of anonymous non-employees.
      - Blikkentrekker 5y ago
        “Free labor” makes the nether regions of many a businessman turn tropical.
  - jim-jim-jim 5y ago
    > you mean boycotts by a bunch of petulant power mods. I sincerely doubt that rank and file reddit users really cared that much. I think you're right. It's important to realize that the normy web is cable news, not the agora. There is nothing organic about the apparent consensus expressed there. The top 500 communities being moderated by the same few people is a well-known statistic. The Elgin Air Force Base connection is another fun thing to look into. Every couple of weeks there's another story about some fringe community getting burned by big platforms, Glen Greenwald fills in some template to write an article about it, somebody links to the XKCD comic about censorship, and the dance continues. However sympathetic I am to free expression, I'm a bit tired of the discourse at this point. Nobody expects major broadcasters or newspapers to present unorthodox viewpoints, given how thoroughly compromised they are by intelligence agencies and corporate interests. I don't see why major web publishers should be viewed differently. Engaging with these platforms is not a winning battle. The only solution is to set up alternative institutions, but I haven't been impressed by what's popped up so far. Most decentralized Mastodon etc stuff is in practice even more ideologically rigid, and full of truly psychotic nerds. I like to imagine that there's still some active PHPbb board out there full of dudes just chilling. I'd like to find it one day.
cinntaile 5y ago
Surely fringe groups (other platforms) have a smaller impact on society than groups that are part of the mainstream (Reddit)?
- postalrat 5y ago
  Until enough people move from a large platform (digg) to a new one (reddit).
whymauri 5y ago
So... how are Gab and Parler doing? Not sure those platforms are much of a threat. I'm actually more concerned about Facebook.
- ipspam 5y ago
  Gab is actually useful. It only take on or two banned persons to make it worth joining Gab. I post about meat, get spammed bible verses (some better than others), and follow Milo and vox day. GAB is a sleeper community, only missing an App.
ithkuil 5y ago
> Just an absolutely pathetic, counterproductive, downright stupid decision on behalf of reddit You may be right, but your choice of words make me wonder why some people feel so sure of being right as to claim somebody else incapable of getting something right when it's so obvious what to do. But is it? Perhaps the decision is sad as it would be better for the world that they stand their ground. But perhaps it was the only rational choice that reddit could do (game theory and all that). Or perhaps they did intentionally choose what they thought was the better option for everybody, and letting people radicalize in their ghettos (and stand out as radicalized groups) instead of normalizing the radical positions. In any case, I wouldn't be so sure we're dealing with downright stupidity.
mint2 5y ago
How is it so clearly a bad thing to quarantine extremism and misinformation to dark corners rather than allow them to be in a more easily stumbled upon location by non-extremists or not yet extremists that are somewhat susceptible to falling down that rabbit hole if exposed?
- Blikkentrekker 5y ago
  Misinformation is everywhere including on Reddit, even quite dangerous misinformation but no one cares, but when misinformation runes across tribalist political lines is suddenly when people start to care. Rarely do people care about improving the world, but feeling part of a team has always galvanized men into iron warriors. — Achieving victory is of course not the concern of these warriors, but the joy of fighting shoulder to shoulder with another is it's own reward. Of course, that it runs across tribalist political lines is the only reason the misinformation again exists in this particular case, but that also makes it less useful to shut the subreddit down. The misinformation that is commonly spread, by, say, r/legaladvice, is easier to remedy by simple conversation or alternatively shutting it down and for Reddit to ban lay legal advice, as people believe that simply because they are misinformed, not because they enjoy feeling part of a team believing whatever the rest of the team does.
- otabdeveloper4 5y ago
  Glad to know we finally found the final arbiter of what exactly is "extremism and misinformation"! This will make governing the people so much easier now!
  - Barrin92 5y ago
    contrary to what you might believe truth and lies do in fact exist and while the line can be blurry at times, anti-vax misinformation happens to be firmly on one side of that equation, and taking it down prevents real physical harm.
  - mint2 5y ago
    Please refrain from sarcasm that doesn’t add anything. If you want to add to the discussion please elaborate on why you think it is impossible to know if something is extremism in a reasonably objective manner, and explain the examples most people would think of like neonazi propaganda and vaccine disinformation that causes people to prefer unstudied horse dewormer over studied vaccines.

Blikkentrekker 5y ago

Reddit hardly cares about improving the world as much as it's own bottom line. The boycotts by several popular subreddits were hurting them, and that is all. — r/legaladvice is a known hotbed of misinformation of potentially drastic consequences that is allowed to stay, as that misinformation does not run enough across political tribalist lines to make people care.

LordHelpUsAll 5y ago
Anti-vax subreddits are removed due to the protests of pedo friendly subreddits such as r/NonoffendingMAP ???
- Blikkentrekker 5y ago
  Hmmyes, everyone who disagrees with me is a pædophile too; I find that the world is so much easier to bare with that idea in mind.
lp0_on_fire 5y ago
> The boycotts by several popular subreddits were hurting them, and that is all. you mean boycotts by a bunch of petulant power mods. I sincerely doubt that rank and file reddit users really cared that much. Whether you agree with the outcome or not this is not the situation reddit admins should want to be in. They've just shown those mods that if they're loud enough that reddit will roll right over. Seems like a bold move to put yourself in that position on the eve of their IPO (if rumors are to be believed).
- Blikkentrekker 5y ago
  Reddit wants to be somewhat decentralized and offload many of it's labor to users who provided it with free content. — This is the other side of it, I suppose. And yes, I mean that the boycots were organized by those in control of those subreddits.
  - lp0_on_fire 5y ago
    That might be what reddit wants not but if they decide to go public they'll have to convince shareholders why it's a good idea to leave the keys to the kingdom in the hands of a bunch of anonymous non-employees.
    - Blikkentrekker 5y ago
      “Free labor” makes the nether regions of many a businessman turn tropical.
- jim-jim-jim 5y ago
  > you mean boycotts by a bunch of petulant power mods. I sincerely doubt that rank and file reddit users really cared that much. I think you're right. It's important to realize that the normy web is cable news, not the agora. There is nothing organic about the apparent consensus expressed there. The top 500 communities being moderated by the same few people is a well-known statistic. The Elgin Air Force Base connection is another fun thing to look into. Every couple of weeks there's another story about some fringe community getting burned by big platforms, Glen Greenwald fills in some template to write an article about it, somebody links to the XKCD comic about censorship, and the dance continues. However sympathetic I am to free expression, I'm a bit tired of the discourse at this point. Nobody expects major broadcasters or newspapers to present unorthodox viewpoints, given how thoroughly compromised they are by intelligence agencies and corporate interests. I don't see why major web publishers should be viewed differently. Engaging with these platforms is not a winning battle. The only solution is to set up alternative institutions, but I haven't been impressed by what's popped up so far. Most decentralized Mastodon etc stuff is in practice even more ideologically rigid, and full of truly psychotic nerds. I like to imagine that there's still some active PHPbb board out there full of dudes just chilling. I'd like to find it one day.

cinntaile 5y ago

Surely fringe groups (other platforms) have a smaller impact on society than groups that are part of the mainstream (Reddit)?

postalrat 5y ago
Until enough people move from a large platform (digg) to a new one (reddit).

whymauri 5y ago

So... how are Gab and Parler doing? Not sure those platforms are much of a threat. I'm actually more concerned about Facebook.

ipspam 5y ago
Gab is actually useful. It only take on or two banned persons to make it worth joining Gab. I post about meat, get spammed bible verses (some better than others), and follow Milo and vox day. GAB is a sleeper community, only missing an App.

ithkuil 5y ago

> Just an absolutely pathetic, counterproductive, downright stupid decision on behalf of reddit You may be right, but your choice of words make me wonder why some people feel so sure of being right as to claim somebody else incapable of getting something right when it's so obvious what to do. But is it? Perhaps the decision is sad as it would be better for the world that they stand their ground. But perhaps it was the only rational choice that reddit could do (game theory and all that). Or perhaps they did intentionally choose what they thought was the better option for everybody, and letting people radicalize in their ghettos (and stand out as radicalized groups) instead of normalizing the radical positions. In any case, I wouldn't be so sure we're dealing with downright stupidity.

mint2 5y ago

How is it so clearly a bad thing to quarantine extremism and misinformation to dark corners rather than allow them to be in a more easily stumbled upon location by non-extremists or not yet extremists that are somewhat susceptible to falling down that rabbit hole if exposed?

Blikkentrekker 5y ago
Misinformation is everywhere including on Reddit, even quite dangerous misinformation but no one cares, but when misinformation runes across tribalist political lines is suddenly when people start to care. Rarely do people care about improving the world, but feeling part of a team has always galvanized men into iron warriors. — Achieving victory is of course not the concern of these warriors, but the joy of fighting shoulder to shoulder with another is it's own reward. Of course, that it runs across tribalist political lines is the only reason the misinformation again exists in this particular case, but that also makes it less useful to shut the subreddit down. The misinformation that is commonly spread, by, say, r/legaladvice, is easier to remedy by simple conversation or alternatively shutting it down and for Reddit to ban lay legal advice, as people believe that simply because they are misinformed, not because they enjoy feeling part of a team believing whatever the rest of the team does.
otabdeveloper4 5y ago
Glad to know we finally found the final arbiter of what exactly is "extremism and misinformation"! This will make governing the people so much easier now!
- Barrin92 5y ago
  contrary to what you might believe truth and lies do in fact exist and while the line can be blurry at times, anti-vax misinformation happens to be firmly on one side of that equation, and taking it down prevents real physical harm.
- mint2 5y ago
  Please refrain from sarcasm that doesn’t add anything. If you want to add to the discussion please elaborate on why you think it is impossible to know if something is extremism in a reasonably objective manner, and explain the examples most people would think of like neonazi propaganda and vaccine disinformation that causes people to prefer unstudied horse dewormer over studied vaccines.