9 ms·

Digital ID for everyone, here we go. Globally, right? Not for me do. Until there is no other option than this, I will refuse it. If I am lucky I have 30-40 s

by nbzso 5y ago

Digital ID for everyone, here we go. Globally, right? Not for me do. Until there is no other option than this, I will refuse it. If I am lucky I have 30-40 something years ahead of me, more is a bonus territory. So I intend to live as a human being, not some database record "because of digitalization". If this means not to have smartphone or using computers in local networks, so be it. Big F--- you for corporations and governments of the world for collaborating behind the scenes to move us to Minority Report reality. Apple the global leader in surveillance and government control. Who would guess? What is the new slogan Apple: You are living it wrong?

codyswann 5y ago
I'm so excited for this. It's the end of my physical wallet. Is there something concrete you're worried about or is it you just don't like giving big brother too much of your info?
- foepys 5y ago
  > Is there something concrete you're worried about A dead battery and a virus on my phone stealing all of my data, identity, and then time to get it straightened out again.
  - codyswann 5y ago
    I lose my wallet (3 times) far more often than I get a virus on my phone (never). And I forget my wallet (all the time) more often than my phone dies without a charger (maybe once every six months)
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  I'm not grandparent poster, but depending on who supplies and configures the ID reader, a digital system makes it easier to track people. E.g. if you show your ID at a liquor store, currently the cashier would just check your age and then forget about you. If s/he has a barcode scanner or an Apple ID scanner, then that scanner can log your visits. And your whereabouts can be tracked by following where your ID was scanned throughtout time. In China, ID cards have RFID and they have to be scanned when entering a train station or airports (or the old town of Lhasa in Tibet), so a future government here might abuse a similar system to track you and maybe harass you by saying "You were in this area yesterday, there was $SOME_BAD_EVENT, what's your alibi?". China also implements long distance travel bans by refusing you entry to the train station/airport, e.g. if you have a bad "social score", which, I imagine would be ripe for abuse in a Trumpian regime. (Although the FBI already abused the no-fly list for the purposes of harassing individuals)
  - mixmastamyk 5y ago
    > your whereabouts can be tracked Already are being tracked and bought and sold by third-parties without your knowledge.
    - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
      So, just give up all our privacy? Again, I'm not GP, who might be more paranoid about it. And yes I have Google Maps Timeline active.
      - mixmastamyk 5y ago
        No, I was trying to make the point that the concerns are not theoretical, they are already occurring.
  - kalleboo 5y ago
    > If s/he has a barcode scanner or an Apple ID scanner, then that scanner can log your visits This system actually lets you only supply your age to the reader and no other info, to avoid the tracking. In other discussions of this, I've learned that many shops and bars in the US already optically scan IDs to verify them digitally (not trusting staff to verify security features), so this is actually an improvement on privacy compared to before.
    - namaria 5y ago
      So that means trusting software and hardware will always adhere perfectly to advertised specifications. Sounds air tight.
- hakfoo 5y ago
  Can someone explain the huge net gain in conveinence you get from not carrying a wallet? I know if I drop my wallet, the cards inside will still work. They won't be out-of-service-area or forgot to be charged. The wallet also caters to many use cases the phone will never support. That can be high-tech stuff like some obscure closed-loop fare card or keycard system that isn't NFC-compatible, or the paper punch card from the local burrito place. And it lets me carry cash, which is still less of a production number for plenty of informal payments-- I'm not walking through a Apple Pay/Zelle/PayPal transaction at a yard sale. Maybe it's because I'm fat and wear loose fitting clothes-- having a wallet in my pocket is not a huge frustration.
  - doctorsher 5y ago
    Probably not what you were going for, but an entirely digital wallet would substantially reduce the ‘pain in the ass’ factor of getting robbed.
  - dkonofalski 5y ago
    You say this as if having a physical wallet doesn't also have huge downsides in exchange for being physical. If you drop your wallet and lose it, someone has access to everything you have and any accounts tied to anything in your wallet. If you lose your phone, they get nothing. If you have a physical card and it's been worn down, it will fail to scan. That's never an issue with digital cards. Physical wallets have physical limits to how much they can carry without being a giant lump in your clothing. Digital wallets stay the same size no matter what you put in them. Physical wallets are limited to what you put in them. If you forget a punch card, boarding pass, or ticket, you have no recourse. Digital wallets never lose anything and always have ways to retrieve the passes or cards within them. We could go on and on but both options have advantages and disadvantages...
sweetheart 5y ago
> So I intend to live as a human being, not some database record You are already a database record, so are you not currently living as a human being? Do my medical records prevent me from living as a human being? I have so many questions.
- nbzso 5y ago
  Centralized digital record. Closed source company. Third party unable to audit databases. There are so many answers.
  - ArchOversight 5y ago
    This stays local to your device, it doesn't get sent to Apple...
    - cmoscoso 5y ago
      …until it does.
weezin 5y ago
I really think this has more to do with giving people the ability to get rid of their physical wallet and therefore more people using apple pay.
userbinator 5y ago
I am preserving your and some other (more explicit) heavily-downvoted comments here that paint a disturbingly prophetic picture of where things are going to go. We know what's happening to our freedoms and what the future will look like. Too bad there's not enough of us to fight back.
- artificialLimbs 5y ago
  >> Too bad there’s not enough of us to fight back. I don’t think so. You can see glimmers of hope in people who refuse to buy into propaganda every day if you go looking for it. Just today, for example, Project Veritas successfully got a California high school teacher fired for literally trying to convert his students to communists. There are lots of people doing horrible things with tech, and programmers willing to write the shit code that executes on those desires, but all of that comes from the desire for more money and power. It has always been the case that smart humans with drive chase money and power, but it often only takes a small handful of people to bring change to even the worst tyranny. Don’t lose hope for freedom, friend.
  - userbinator 5y ago
    The rise of authoritarianism isn't a left vs right issue, unfortunately --- same with things like right to repair and such issues of ownership; there's no one big side that's for or against.

by nbzso 5y ago

codyswann 5y ago

I'm so excited for this. It's the end of my physical wallet. Is there something concrete you're worried about or is it you just don't like giving big brother too much of your info?

foepys 5y ago
> Is there something concrete you're worried about A dead battery and a virus on my phone stealing all of my data, identity, and then time to get it straightened out again.
- codyswann 5y ago
  I lose my wallet (3 times) far more often than I get a virus on my phone (never). And I forget my wallet (all the time) more often than my phone dies without a charger (maybe once every six months)
bellyfullofbac 5y ago
I'm not grandparent poster, but depending on who supplies and configures the ID reader, a digital system makes it easier to track people. E.g. if you show your ID at a liquor store, currently the cashier would just check your age and then forget about you. If s/he has a barcode scanner or an Apple ID scanner, then that scanner can log your visits. And your whereabouts can be tracked by following where your ID was scanned throughtout time. In China, ID cards have RFID and they have to be scanned when entering a train station or airports (or the old town of Lhasa in Tibet), so a future government here might abuse a similar system to track you and maybe harass you by saying "You were in this area yesterday, there was $SOME_BAD_EVENT, what's your alibi?". China also implements long distance travel bans by refusing you entry to the train station/airport, e.g. if you have a bad "social score", which, I imagine would be ripe for abuse in a Trumpian regime. (Although the FBI already abused the no-fly list for the purposes of harassing individuals)
- mixmastamyk 5y ago
  > your whereabouts can be tracked Already are being tracked and bought and sold by third-parties without your knowledge.
  - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
    So, just give up all our privacy? Again, I'm not GP, who might be more paranoid about it. And yes I have Google Maps Timeline active.
    - mixmastamyk 5y ago
      No, I was trying to make the point that the concerns are not theoretical, they are already occurring.
- kalleboo 5y ago
  > If s/he has a barcode scanner or an Apple ID scanner, then that scanner can log your visits This system actually lets you only supply your age to the reader and no other info, to avoid the tracking. In other discussions of this, I've learned that many shops and bars in the US already optically scan IDs to verify them digitally (not trusting staff to verify security features), so this is actually an improvement on privacy compared to before.
  - namaria 5y ago
    So that means trusting software and hardware will always adhere perfectly to advertised specifications. Sounds air tight.
hakfoo 5y ago
Can someone explain the huge net gain in conveinence you get from not carrying a wallet? I know if I drop my wallet, the cards inside will still work. They won't be out-of-service-area or forgot to be charged. The wallet also caters to many use cases the phone will never support. That can be high-tech stuff like some obscure closed-loop fare card or keycard system that isn't NFC-compatible, or the paper punch card from the local burrito place. And it lets me carry cash, which is still less of a production number for plenty of informal payments-- I'm not walking through a Apple Pay/Zelle/PayPal transaction at a yard sale. Maybe it's because I'm fat and wear loose fitting clothes-- having a wallet in my pocket is not a huge frustration.
- doctorsher 5y ago
  Probably not what you were going for, but an entirely digital wallet would substantially reduce the ‘pain in the ass’ factor of getting robbed.
- dkonofalski 5y ago
  You say this as if having a physical wallet doesn't also have huge downsides in exchange for being physical. If you drop your wallet and lose it, someone has access to everything you have and any accounts tied to anything in your wallet. If you lose your phone, they get nothing. If you have a physical card and it's been worn down, it will fail to scan. That's never an issue with digital cards. Physical wallets have physical limits to how much they can carry without being a giant lump in your clothing. Digital wallets stay the same size no matter what you put in them. Physical wallets are limited to what you put in them. If you forget a punch card, boarding pass, or ticket, you have no recourse. Digital wallets never lose anything and always have ways to retrieve the passes or cards within them. We could go on and on but both options have advantages and disadvantages...

sweetheart 5y ago

> So I intend to live as a human being, not some database record You are already a database record, so are you not currently living as a human being? Do my medical records prevent me from living as a human being? I have so many questions.

nbzso 5y ago
Centralized digital record. Closed source company. Third party unable to audit databases. There are so many answers.
- ArchOversight 5y ago
  This stays local to your device, it doesn't get sent to Apple...
  - cmoscoso 5y ago
    …until it does.

weezin 5y ago

I really think this has more to do with giving people the ability to get rid of their physical wallet and therefore more people using apple pay.

userbinator 5y ago

I am preserving your and some other (more explicit) heavily-downvoted comments here that paint a disturbingly prophetic picture of where things are going to go. We know what's happening to our freedoms and what the future will look like. Too bad there's not enough of us to fight back.

artificialLimbs 5y ago
>> Too bad there’s not enough of us to fight back. I don’t think so. You can see glimmers of hope in people who refuse to buy into propaganda every day if you go looking for it. Just today, for example, Project Veritas successfully got a California high school teacher fired for literally trying to convert his students to communists. There are lots of people doing horrible things with tech, and programmers willing to write the shit code that executes on those desires, but all of that comes from the desire for more money and power. It has always been the case that smart humans with drive chase money and power, but it often only takes a small handful of people to bring change to even the worst tyranny. Don’t lose hope for freedom, friend.
- userbinator 5y ago
  The rise of authoritarianism isn't a left vs right issue, unfortunately --- same with things like right to repair and such issues of ownership; there's no one big side that's for or against.