4 ms·

For a Berlin-based team like the one Mozilla used, $250-$400/hr/engineer is kinda hard to believe. Probably closer to $150-$200/hr. The average software enginee

by tpmx 5y ago

For a Berlin-based team like the one Mozilla used, $250-$400/hr/engineer is kinda hard to believe. Probably closer to $150-$200/hr. The average software engineer in Berlin makes $71k/yr. The compensation levels are very different compared to SV.

codethief 5y ago
Don't forget to add the employer's mandatory social security contributions and any additional employee benefits and equipment[0], the USD<>EUR exchange rate, and the fact that even in Berlin a senior security engineer will definitely make more than 71k€. [0]: The founder of a (Germany-based) IT consulting firm recently told me that, as an estimate, pretty much any engineer at a tech firm costs at least 100,000€/yr.
- tpmx 5y ago
  Still, do you think that Berlin-based company charged $250-400 per engineer-hour?
  - codethief 5y ago
    Not sure about 400 USD/hour but 250 USD (~200 EUR) for a senior? Yeah.
sbradford26 5y ago
So he is talking about bill rate which is very different than what someone makes. At my company someone might make $50 but their bill rate might be like $175. Your bill rate factors is all sort of costs like having an office building, insurance, taxes, and everything that goes into having an employee above just salary. So even if they are in Berlin their bill rate is most likely comparable.
- tpmx 5y ago
  Yes, I am aware of all of those factors.
lucb1e 5y ago
I am familiar with Berlin rates and this person is right. 400 USD (337 euros) an hour is unrealistic, unless you are hiring Cure53 specifically because employee X did groundbreaking research on topic Y and that's why you need that expertise; only then would I expect Mozilla to agree to that sort of rate. The range is more likely to be 110 - 250 euros per hour, where both ends are fairly unlikely but it's not as if I have comprehensive industry-wide data on everyone's financials. (I'm not that kind of hacker, heh.) The sibling commenters are right, though, that the hourly rates charged by the company are not very related to how much you earn as a person. I wish I got my hourly rate as salary, but I see what kind of organisational crap the founder has to do and it's just not worth the headache to me.

by tpmx 5y ago

codethief 5y ago

Don't forget to add the employer's mandatory social security contributions and any additional employee benefits and equipment[0], the USD<>EUR exchange rate, and the fact that even in Berlin a senior security engineer will definitely make more than 71k€. [0]: The founder of a (Germany-based) IT consulting firm recently told me that, as an estimate, pretty much any engineer at a tech firm costs at least 100,000€/yr.

tpmx 5y ago
Still, do you think that Berlin-based company charged $250-400 per engineer-hour?
- codethief 5y ago
  Not sure about 400 USD/hour but 250 USD (~200 EUR) for a senior? Yeah.

sbradford26 5y ago

So he is talking about bill rate which is very different than what someone makes. At my company someone might make $50 but their bill rate might be like $175. Your bill rate factors is all sort of costs like having an office building, insurance, taxes, and everything that goes into having an employee above just salary. So even if they are in Berlin their bill rate is most likely comparable.

tpmx 5y ago
Yes, I am aware of all of those factors.

lucb1e 5y ago

I am familiar with Berlin rates and this person is right. 400 USD (337 euros) an hour is unrealistic, unless you are hiring Cure53 specifically because employee X did groundbreaking research on topic Y and that's why you need that expertise; only then would I expect Mozilla to agree to that sort of rate. The range is more likely to be 110 - 250 euros per hour, where both ends are fairly unlikely but it's not as if I have comprehensive industry-wide data on everyone's financials. (I'm not that kind of hacker, heh.) The sibling commenters are right, though, that the hourly rates charged by the company are not very related to how much you earn as a person. I wish I got my hourly rate as salary, but I see what kind of organisational crap the founder has to do and it's just not worth the headache to me.