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> People who end up in, on average, better-paying jobs are the primary beneficiaries of cheap/free post-secondary education. Those people also end up paying fa

> People who end up in, on average, better-paying jobs are the primary beneficiaries of cheap/free post-secondary education. Those people also end up paying far more taxes. There's a perfectly selfish reason for government to make college free - it more than pays for itself over the lifetime of the taxpayer. It doesn't make sense for government to pay for ridiculous university overhead (e.g. expensive new buildings, armies of worthless administrators, wildly overpaid athletic coaches, etc) but it's a no-brainer deal for government to pay fully for the real costs college degree. The key is to avoid paying for the non-education expenses.

betwixthewires 5y ago
I'm guessing you deduced that those people end up paying more taxes because they end up making more money? If that were the case you wouldn't have the student debt crisis right now; if the payoff was worth it people would be able to afford to pay their loans. If we can make a college degree only cost what it actually costs and not pay for all the cruft why does the government have to start paying it? You've solved the problem at that point.
- mullingitover 5y ago
  > If we can make a college degree only cost what it actually costs and not pay for all the cruft why does the government have to start paying it? You've solved the problem at that point. Only a single payer system has the leverage to force the universities to decouple their cruft from their core educational expenses. And you're right! College tuition would probably be near-negligible if the cruft was removed, but my take at that point is why not just make it free, then? The irony is we essentially already have this single payer system. Every college and university is dependent on federal financing for tuition. The federal government simply needs to use the power it already possesses. It's a lot like the federal government's refusal to negotiate drug prices, a wasted opportunity.
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    > Only a single payer system has the leverage to force the universities to decouple their cruft from their core educational expenses That's a pretty steadfast assertion. It's untrue, and we know that because higher education used to be affordable without a single payer system. > The irony is we essentially already have this single payer system. I'm not sure this is ironic so much as symptomatic. Blank checks lead to waste. Students on the hook for blank checks lead to what we have now. > why not just make it free, then? I can think of a couple of reasons. Nothing is free in this world, for one, and beyond that, I don't want to live in a world where I have to spend another 4 years of my life in school just to get a job because it's free and therefore expected of everyone. Those are pretty big reasons why not.
    - mullingitover 5y ago
      > It's untrue, and we know that because higher education used to be affordable without a single payer system. We don't know that it would've been affordable without public financing, but I would wager we'd be in the same boat now but with college entirely out of reach for most, instead of merely expensive. > Nothing is free in this world, for one Except college in at least six countries[1] > I don't want to live in a world where I have to spend another 4 years of my life in school just to get a job because it's free and therefore expected of everyone You don't have to do this. The world still needs field hands and other unskilled labor, and there are still skilled trades that pay quite well. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/080616/6-countries-virtually-free-college-tuition.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/08061...

betwixthewires 5y ago

I'm guessing you deduced that those people end up paying more taxes because they end up making more money? If that were the case you wouldn't have the student debt crisis right now; if the payoff was worth it people would be able to afford to pay their loans. If we can make a college degree only cost what it actually costs and not pay for all the cruft why does the government have to start paying it? You've solved the problem at that point.

mullingitover 5y ago
> If we can make a college degree only cost what it actually costs and not pay for all the cruft why does the government have to start paying it? You've solved the problem at that point. Only a single payer system has the leverage to force the universities to decouple their cruft from their core educational expenses. And you're right! College tuition would probably be near-negligible if the cruft was removed, but my take at that point is why not just make it free, then? The irony is we essentially already have this single payer system. Every college and university is dependent on federal financing for tuition. The federal government simply needs to use the power it already possesses. It's a lot like the federal government's refusal to negotiate drug prices, a wasted opportunity.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  > Only a single payer system has the leverage to force the universities to decouple their cruft from their core educational expenses That's a pretty steadfast assertion. It's untrue, and we know that because higher education used to be affordable without a single payer system. > The irony is we essentially already have this single payer system. I'm not sure this is ironic so much as symptomatic. Blank checks lead to waste. Students on the hook for blank checks lead to what we have now. > why not just make it free, then? I can think of a couple of reasons. Nothing is free in this world, for one, and beyond that, I don't want to live in a world where I have to spend another 4 years of my life in school just to get a job because it's free and therefore expected of everyone. Those are pretty big reasons why not.
  - mullingitover 5y ago
    > It's untrue, and we know that because higher education used to be affordable without a single payer system. We don't know that it would've been affordable without public financing, but I would wager we'd be in the same boat now but with college entirely out of reach for most, instead of merely expensive. > Nothing is free in this world, for one Except college in at least six countries[1] > I don't want to live in a world where I have to spend another 4 years of my life in school just to get a job because it's free and therefore expected of everyone You don't have to do this. The world still needs field hands and other unskilled labor, and there are still skilled trades that pay quite well. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/080616/6-countries-virtually-free-college-tuition.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/08061...