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> This country badly needs a national ID system. Great! You have just solved the illegal immigration problem. So we are going to legalize everyone right here r

> This country badly needs a national ID system. Great! You have just solved the illegal immigration problem. So we are going to legalize everyone right here right now, correct?

ironmagma 5y ago
The immigration problem is only related to the ID problem for those who have an agenda. They are separate issues.
- notyourday 5y ago
  > The immigration problem is only related to the ID problem for those who have an agenda. They are separate issues. They are exactly the same issue. National ID only works if everyone inside the border has it -- regardless of how they managed to get there initially -- be that a person who due to whatever the weird way cannot get an ID as their records are messed up ( hello rural Appalachia ) or someone who is here illegally. After that t0 day the borders control and immigration control get teeth and anyone who does not have a National ID gets removed from the country. Otherwise you have just created two different classes of people with a near impenetrable barrier between them
  - ironmagma 5y ago
    Or, we could start with giving a National ID to whoever currently has a Social Security card. That sidesteps the whole issue you’re describing and still solves the problem of how Social Security Numbers are not secret.
    - notyourday 5y ago
      > Or, we could start with giving a National ID to whoever currently has a Social Security card. That sidesteps the whole issue you’re describing and still solves the problem of how Social Security Numbers are not secret. It does not because we fundamentally have enough fake social security numbers based identify theft to still create a two class system except this time there's zero guarantee that the person who should get the ID will have it and not his or hers "counterpart" My wife got IRS notification that she already filed taxes a few years ago when she attempted to file hers. It was because someone has been using her identity. That person did not get arrested. Rather there are now two people running around the country with her SSN - her and not her. Oh and they are still filing taxes as her. Year after year. She just needs to use a special code now to separate her return from an imposer return
      - betwixthewires 5y ago
        Lol that's messed up. "Here's your SSN, it is to identify you. Oh and here's another number that we will use to identify you, this one is more important, don't lose it."
      - ironmagma 5y ago
        No system will be perfect, but it’s not obvious how your story indicates this has anything to do with immigration still. All that’s been said is there are additional problems with dispute resolution.
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    > Otherwise you have just created two different classes of people with a near impenetrable barrier between them > anyone who does not have a National ID gets removed from the country. From what can tell you inadvertently already solved the problem you're proposing. Of course you framed the problem wrong. National ID only works if everyone who is supposed to be inside the border has it. It doesn't work if Appalachians can't get it. But it works like a charm if illegal aliens can't.
  - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
    I have no idea, how countries like india, and countries like members of former yugoslavia (with changing borders) do it, and first world, developer, rich USA can't.
    - notyourday 5y ago
      US does not want to deal with the problem of having a significant percentage of people who are in the US and participate in the economy who would not be able to get the ID.
      - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
        Illegals? Most countries would not want illegals in their countries at all.... usually if you need workers for some sectors, you give out work visas to those people, and only in numbers needed, not to bring the wages down too low.

> This country badly needs a national ID system. Great! You have just solved the illegal immigration problem. So we are going to legalize everyone right here right now, correct?

ironmagma 5y ago

The immigration problem is only related to the ID problem for those who have an agenda. They are separate issues.

notyourday 5y ago
> The immigration problem is only related to the ID problem for those who have an agenda. They are separate issues. They are exactly the same issue. National ID only works if everyone inside the border has it -- regardless of how they managed to get there initially -- be that a person who due to whatever the weird way cannot get an ID as their records are messed up ( hello rural Appalachia ) or someone who is here illegally. After that t0 day the borders control and immigration control get teeth and anyone who does not have a National ID gets removed from the country. Otherwise you have just created two different classes of people with a near impenetrable barrier between them
- ironmagma 5y ago
  Or, we could start with giving a National ID to whoever currently has a Social Security card. That sidesteps the whole issue you’re describing and still solves the problem of how Social Security Numbers are not secret.
  - notyourday 5y ago
    > Or, we could start with giving a National ID to whoever currently has a Social Security card. That sidesteps the whole issue you’re describing and still solves the problem of how Social Security Numbers are not secret. It does not because we fundamentally have enough fake social security numbers based identify theft to still create a two class system except this time there's zero guarantee that the person who should get the ID will have it and not his or hers "counterpart" My wife got IRS notification that she already filed taxes a few years ago when she attempted to file hers. It was because someone has been using her identity. That person did not get arrested. Rather there are now two people running around the country with her SSN - her and not her. Oh and they are still filing taxes as her. Year after year. She just needs to use a special code now to separate her return from an imposer return
    - betwixthewires 5y ago
      Lol that's messed up. "Here's your SSN, it is to identify you. Oh and here's another number that we will use to identify you, this one is more important, don't lose it."
    - ironmagma 5y ago
      No system will be perfect, but it’s not obvious how your story indicates this has anything to do with immigration still. All that’s been said is there are additional problems with dispute resolution.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  > Otherwise you have just created two different classes of people with a near impenetrable barrier between them > anyone who does not have a National ID gets removed from the country. From what can tell you inadvertently already solved the problem you're proposing. Of course you framed the problem wrong. National ID only works if everyone who is supposed to be inside the border has it. It doesn't work if Appalachians can't get it. But it works like a charm if illegal aliens can't.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  I have no idea, how countries like india, and countries like members of former yugoslavia (with changing borders) do it, and first world, developer, rich USA can't.
  - notyourday 5y ago
    US does not want to deal with the problem of having a significant percentage of people who are in the US and participate in the economy who would not be able to get the ID.
    - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
      Illegals? Most countries would not want illegals in their countries at all.... usually if you need workers for some sectors, you give out work visas to those people, and only in numbers needed, not to bring the wages down too low.