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The risk of suffering long-term damage from getting covid unvaccinated is way higher than the risk of any long-term side effects from the vaccine or getting Cov

The risk of suffering long-term damage from getting covid unvaccinated is way higher than the risk of any long-term side effects from the vaccine or getting Covid vaccinated. Even if the former is low, there's no downside to getting the vaccine anyways. I can kind of understand if someone is avoiding the vaccine and also isolating themselves to protect against the virus, but I really just don't understand the risk-benefit analysis where the vaccine is too risky but catching Covid isn't. Also, the risk of catching Covid unvaccinated may not be that low. But, the risk of any serious vaccine side-effects, or catching Covid vaccinated, is super low. IIRC Israel did a study and, the amount of breakthrough cases requiring hospitalization for under 40 was 0.3 per 100k, and the amount of people suffering myocarditis and other vaccine complications is in the double-digits, despite vaccinations being in the billions. We know little about the vaccine, but we also know little about the effects of social media, random pollutants, etc. And that stuff is applied without your consent, and unlike the vaccine that stuff probably is harmful long-term.

polote 5y ago
> The risk of suffering long-term damage from getting covid unvaccinated is way higher than the risk of any long-term side effects from the vaccine or getting Covid vaccinated Honest question, there were studies about the effect of the vaccine on hospitalizations. But is there any studies about the effect on long covid ? And especially is there studies showing that people under the age of 40 in healthy condition have any benefit regarding long covid by taking the vaccine ? > I really just don't understand the risk-benefit analysis where the vaccine is too risky but catching Covid isn't. Well, some people don't like to take drugs, so if they know that their immune system can cope with it (even if that means difficult time for a short time) they would prefer it. It is not risk-benefit positive. It is just more aligned with some people feelings. Some people make preventing death as the almost most important things in their life, so they will take drugs, be careful in life and so on. While some people are just ok dying in certain conditions, and are not willing to engage in risk-free life
- jjeaff 5y ago
  I don't know of studies directly studying the vaccine for prevention of long covid, but most of the studies coming out seem to indicate that long covid is more likely in severe infections. So since we know the vaccine is good at preventing severe infections, it makes sense that the vaccine would be good at preventing long covid. I get where you are coming from on the default being not taking medicine. But to me, I just don't see a vaccine as quite the same as medicine. It's basically a training program for your immune system. It tells your immune system what to look for and then when covid does enter your system, it is prepared and your immune system naturally fights it off the same way it always would. It just has a headstart in creating antibodies.
- armchairhacker 5y ago
  > And especially is there studies showing that people under the age of 40 in healthy condition have any benefit regarding long covid by taking the vaccine ? If you mean risk of long-covid after getting covid with vs. without the vaccine: of course we don't know, but it's pretty likely the vaccine significantly decreases the chance of long covid. Since long-covid correlates well with infection severity, and the vaccine is particularly good at preventing severe infections. If you mean the chance of people who already have long-covid recovering after getting vaccinated - it's pretty low. > Well, some people don't like to take drugs, so if they know that their immune system can cope with it (even if that means difficult time for a short time) they would prefer it. Ok. But still, "drug" is an arbitrary label, the vaccine consists of mRNA and other compounds which are in your body. I get taking risks and not being over-careful, like I definitely get why lockdowns / even masking in some situations is a bad idea. But the risk of not getting vaccinated is an unnecessary risk, kind of like driving without a seatbelt or riding without a helmet, except you only have to wear the helmet initially (idk I can't think of a better analogy).
criticaltinker 5y ago
> the amount of people suffering myocarditis and other vaccine complications is in the double-digits This is not true, according to the CDC (as of August 18th) there at least 742 cases of myocarditis and myopericarditis associated with vaccination, potentially upwards of ~1,300 [1]. For males age 16-17 the reporting rate of myopericarditis after 2 doses of Pfizer is 71.5 per 1 million doses administered (0.0071%) [1]. Compared to natural infection, vaccination is likely still a favorable tradeoff for most people. However the tradeoffs are highly dependent on age, health, and gender. Stratifying by these factors is essential for any scientifically accurate discussion of risks. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-08-30/03-COVID-Su-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-...
- ostenning 5y ago
  Personally, my heart & chest are still recovering from the second Pfizer shot, after having ECG, bloodwork and nearly going to the ER. Wont be getting a booster, thats for damned certain. I suspect the number to be significantly higher than whats reported.
  - uniqueid 5y ago
    Literally billions of people around the world have been vaccinated against Coronavirus now. How high can the chance of serious short-term side effects be?
    - sprafa 5y ago
      Again, depends on age, condition. I'm currently fighting long COVID symptoms that have showed up after vaccination. I never had COVID, but the vaccine has given me - chronic fatigue - chronic headaches - brain fog. From JJ vaccine. If you look into the Australia, Canada and Norway data you see that the numbers are higher than initially expected. Serious side effects like TTS were thought to happen around 1 in 100k, but they now think it would be something like 1 in 20 000. Perhaps less, if you account for people that don't even realise they're getting it. The vaccine are something like 5x reduction in mortality, but they are not perfect.
buchmann 5y ago
the fact is, no vaccines against coronaviruses exist. no one. all and every trial vaccine resulted in death of the vaccinated animals. not immediately, but after a while. it was the ADE. do you still want a try?
xyzzy21 5y ago
People have a right to take that risk!
- sjg007 5y ago
  The govt has the right to protect public health.
  - Grakel 5y ago
    The government does not have rights. In the United States the power resides in the individual citizens. The "government" are individual citizens selected to do the paperwork. When their corruption exceeds our disinterest, they're done.
    - zaptrem 5y ago
      And yet the majority of those citizens agree with vaccine mandates among other public health measures https://news.uchicago.edu/story/most-americans-support-vaccine-mandates-certain-public-spaces-survey-finds https://news.uchicago.edu/story/most-americans-support-vacci... It’s almost like the government is still fulfilling the will of the people!
      - SamPatt 5y ago
        The government is not meant to be majority rule. It was explicitly created to prevent majority rule. The Senate acted as a longer term, more stable body to counteract the more popularist House. Originally citizens didn't even vote for Senators, they were appointed by the states themselves. An entire set of explicit rules restrained what the majority could do (Constitution and Bill of Rights). Majority rule has a long history of abuses. We shouldn't abandon our system of limiting majority power because of a virus.
        zaptrem 5y ago
        lemmie guess... “America isn’t a democracy, it’s a republic” https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/yes-constitution-democracy/616949/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/yes-consti... “The government wasn’t meant to fulfill the will of the people... it was meant to fulfill the will of my people!” Minority rule has a much longer and more gruesome history of abuses, and it never ends well for the rulers.

polote 5y ago

> The risk of suffering long-term damage from getting covid unvaccinated is way higher than the risk of any long-term side effects from the vaccine or getting Covid vaccinated Honest question, there were studies about the effect of the vaccine on hospitalizations. But is there any studies about the effect on long covid ? And especially is there studies showing that people under the age of 40 in healthy condition have any benefit regarding long covid by taking the vaccine ? > I really just don't understand the risk-benefit analysis where the vaccine is too risky but catching Covid isn't. Well, some people don't like to take drugs, so if they know that their immune system can cope with it (even if that means difficult time for a short time) they would prefer it. It is not risk-benefit positive. It is just more aligned with some people feelings. Some people make preventing death as the almost most important things in their life, so they will take drugs, be careful in life and so on. While some people are just ok dying in certain conditions, and are not willing to engage in risk-free life

jjeaff 5y ago
I don't know of studies directly studying the vaccine for prevention of long covid, but most of the studies coming out seem to indicate that long covid is more likely in severe infections. So since we know the vaccine is good at preventing severe infections, it makes sense that the vaccine would be good at preventing long covid. I get where you are coming from on the default being not taking medicine. But to me, I just don't see a vaccine as quite the same as medicine. It's basically a training program for your immune system. It tells your immune system what to look for and then when covid does enter your system, it is prepared and your immune system naturally fights it off the same way it always would. It just has a headstart in creating antibodies.
armchairhacker 5y ago
> And especially is there studies showing that people under the age of 40 in healthy condition have any benefit regarding long covid by taking the vaccine ? If you mean risk of long-covid after getting covid with vs. without the vaccine: of course we don't know, but it's pretty likely the vaccine significantly decreases the chance of long covid. Since long-covid correlates well with infection severity, and the vaccine is particularly good at preventing severe infections. If you mean the chance of people who already have long-covid recovering after getting vaccinated - it's pretty low. > Well, some people don't like to take drugs, so if they know that their immune system can cope with it (even if that means difficult time for a short time) they would prefer it. Ok. But still, "drug" is an arbitrary label, the vaccine consists of mRNA and other compounds which are in your body. I get taking risks and not being over-careful, like I definitely get why lockdowns / even masking in some situations is a bad idea. But the risk of not getting vaccinated is an unnecessary risk, kind of like driving without a seatbelt or riding without a helmet, except you only have to wear the helmet initially (idk I can't think of a better analogy).

criticaltinker 5y ago

> the amount of people suffering myocarditis and other vaccine complications is in the double-digits This is not true, according to the CDC (as of August 18th) there at least 742 cases of myocarditis and myopericarditis associated with vaccination, potentially upwards of ~1,300 [1]. For males age 16-17 the reporting rate of myopericarditis after 2 doses of Pfizer is 71.5 per 1 million doses administered (0.0071%) [1]. Compared to natural infection, vaccination is likely still a favorable tradeoff for most people. However the tradeoffs are highly dependent on age, health, and gender. Stratifying by these factors is essential for any scientifically accurate discussion of risks. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-08-30/03-COVID-Su-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-...

ostenning 5y ago
Personally, my heart & chest are still recovering from the second Pfizer shot, after having ECG, bloodwork and nearly going to the ER. Wont be getting a booster, thats for damned certain. I suspect the number to be significantly higher than whats reported.
- uniqueid 5y ago
  Literally billions of people around the world have been vaccinated against Coronavirus now. How high can the chance of serious short-term side effects be?
  - sprafa 5y ago
    Again, depends on age, condition. I'm currently fighting long COVID symptoms that have showed up after vaccination. I never had COVID, but the vaccine has given me - chronic fatigue - chronic headaches - brain fog. From JJ vaccine. If you look into the Australia, Canada and Norway data you see that the numbers are higher than initially expected. Serious side effects like TTS were thought to happen around 1 in 100k, but they now think it would be something like 1 in 20 000. Perhaps less, if you account for people that don't even realise they're getting it. The vaccine are something like 5x reduction in mortality, but they are not perfect.

buchmann 5y ago

the fact is, no vaccines against coronaviruses exist. no one. all and every trial vaccine resulted in death of the vaccinated animals. not immediately, but after a while. it was the ADE. do you still want a try?

xyzzy21 5y ago

People have a right to take that risk!

sjg007 5y ago
The govt has the right to protect public health.
- Grakel 5y ago
  The government does not have rights. In the United States the power resides in the individual citizens. The "government" are individual citizens selected to do the paperwork. When their corruption exceeds our disinterest, they're done.
  - zaptrem 5y ago
    And yet the majority of those citizens agree with vaccine mandates among other public health measures https://news.uchicago.edu/story/most-americans-support-vaccine-mandates-certain-public-spaces-survey-finds https://news.uchicago.edu/story/most-americans-support-vacci... It’s almost like the government is still fulfilling the will of the people!
    - SamPatt 5y ago
      The government is not meant to be majority rule. It was explicitly created to prevent majority rule. The Senate acted as a longer term, more stable body to counteract the more popularist House. Originally citizens didn't even vote for Senators, they were appointed by the states themselves. An entire set of explicit rules restrained what the majority could do (Constitution and Bill of Rights). Majority rule has a long history of abuses. We shouldn't abandon our system of limiting majority power because of a virus.
      - zaptrem 5y ago
        lemmie guess... “America isn’t a democracy, it’s a republic” https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/yes-constitution-democracy/616949/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/yes-consti... “The government wasn’t meant to fulfill the will of the people... it was meant to fulfill the will of my people!” Minority rule has a much longer and more gruesome history of abuses, and it never ends well for the rulers.