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Yea let’s go back to life when most citizens didn’t get a primary school education let alone high school. You think 100% of families will prioritize tuition for

Yea let’s go back to life when most citizens didn’t get a primary school education let alone high school. You think 100% of families will prioritize tuition for toddlers when it’s a discretionary expense? Or will the bid up rent costs?

quantumBerry 5y ago
I pay $1200 a month for my toddler's education and now you want me to pay more taxes for someone else's college? Or were you arguing against a straw man that I was talking about whether the public should fund K-12 at all? Public investment in collegiate system is already non-zero. Perhaps you've heard of them, they're called "public college" like "North Dakota State University." Do you understand where the "state" comes from? Which is why I made the statement about spending even more money, not whether we spend it at all. The US gets some of the poorest returns on K-12 education, and we need to get that sorted out before we look at funding the collegiate system further.
- Spivak 5y ago
  Yes because that's how taxes work. You don't have any individual say over where your taxes go. Assuming that you're talking about your local tax burden for public schools you're paying $1200/mo. for everyone's elementary school education. When spread over a population all it does it move money around, that money is right now is being spent on people's college educations and the economic hammer-on effects reach you as well. It's not so simple as "if I don't personally feel like I got a 'free' college education then I'm losing money." The thing people want when they say "make college free" is "a college education is free at the point of delivery" not that it's actually without cost. Also we are allowed to do two things at once. There is no reason that a country of millions of people has to focus on one thing at a time that has the potential to benefit everyone. I say this as someone who has zero skin in this game. I went to private school as a child. I paid off my student loans, I cannot have children. I will in my lifetime not directly benefit from publicly funded education k-12 or college -- I still want this policy.
  - quantumBerry 5y ago
    >Assuming that you're talking about your local tax burden for public schools you're paying $1200/mo. $1200 is what I pay in private education for my toddler before taxes start. I am not rich and this is a very large part of my paycheck. No one helps me with this, no subsidies, no nothing, but I'm supposed to pay even more for someone else's college at gunpoint of federal agents under the taxation system. I'm with you on _wanting_ children to succeed. And adults. I have tutored GED for adults who didn't finish high school, and I did it for free. More money doesn't necessarily mean better education. I pay all of my toddler's education (taxpayers won't help me like they will with K-12 kids). And like most HNers I'm paying out more taxes to fund these programs than the average person. I'm doing my part, now I want the government to handle my money responsibly before I hand them more.
    - valarauko 5y ago
      > $1200 is what I pay in private education for my toddler before taxes start. Why do you pay $1200/month for the private education of a toddler, considering this is a significant fraction of your paycheck? I'm assuming there's some special circumstances here, but as a non-American I can only guess.
- fullstop 5y ago
  Will you be upset when your toddler is no longer in school and you're still paying school taxes?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- throwawaycities 5y ago
  Using your example of North Dakota State University. They have about 15,000 students. Over 50% get federal student loans averaging about 6,500/student/year. That is $48,750,000 per year is taxpayer funded loans going to your State school.
- orhmeh09 5y ago
  If you insist on being a pedant, you had better realize that "North Dakota State University" contains neither "public" nor "college." Revise and resubmit!
- jeffy90 5y ago
  Does the US actually get poor returns on K-12 education? I assume that public K-12 education contributes a lot to the economy in the form of an educated population. Wouldn't both the economy and tax revenue shrink without K-12?
  - quantumBerry 5y ago
    Our ROI is significantly worse than many other developed nations such as Germany, Canada, and Finland [1]. You wouldn't keep throwing more money at a problem until you find out what is going wrong and that those managing it having solved their fiscal responsibility problems. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/07/us-education-spending-finland-south-korea https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/07/us-education...
- gsk22 5y ago
  > I pay $1200 a month for my toddler's education and now you want me to pay more taxes for someone else's college? I pay $1200 a month for my guns and weaponry, and now you want me to pay more taxes for someone else's defense? I pay $1200 a month for my privately maintained road, and now you want me to pay more taxes for someone else's travel? I pay $1200 a month for my own on-call firefighting brigade, and now you want me to pay taxes for someone else's fire? See how foolish that is? Your private, discretionary spending has NOTHING to do with the amount of taxes you should or do pay.
  - quantumBerry 5y ago
    Glad to see in the past two weeks your only comments have been to come here and speak only with me, on two completely unrelated threads. I'm sure this will be a genuine discussion. You've schooled yourself, as you just told me education is discretionary spending. Sounds like you're arguing against taxation for education. In your words, my kid's education is a "private" matter that has "NOTHING" to do with taxes. If you're paying $1200 for your own fire brigade because the taxpayer funded one doesn't go to your address, I'd say it's pretty foolish to be paying taxes on the expansion plan for the fire brigade going to most of the rest of the county (but not your address!). inside joke: Hope gsk22 is your legal name, this isn't an MMO.
    - dang 5y ago
      Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar—this is exactly the wrong direction to go, even if you were provoked. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: it looks like you've been doing this repeatedly already; could you please not? It's destructive of everything we're trying to have here.
  - dang 5y ago
    Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. We're trying for something else here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. We're trying for something else here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
  - quantumBerry 5y ago
    The comment I replied to: "Yea let’s go back to life when most citizens didn’t get a primary school education let alone high school. You think 100% of families will prioritize tuition for toddlers when it’s a discretionary expense? Or will the bid up rent costs?" The fact that this above comment I genuinely replied to was not flagged nor rebuked by yourself, yet my genuine and upvoted response was flagged and rebuked, tells me all I need to know about what you're "trying for."
    - dang 5y ago
      You can't assume that we see all the comments. There are too many for us to see them all: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=likeliest%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... We do our level best to be even-handed, but it's way too much to expect perfectly consistent moderation, just like it's too much to expect cops to give tickets to all speeders. Of course it always feels like you're the one getting singled out and pulled over, but that's a cognitive bias we all suffer from: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22always%20feels%22%20mods%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... --- It's true that https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28382933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28382933 was in the flamewar style and shouldn't have been. But that comment was in reply to you (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28382789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28382789), and your comment was in precisely the same style. So if we're going to try to be consistent here, the transitive logic of finger-pointing at previous comments means you end up pointing at your own. I've scolded both of those comments now.
      - 5y ago
dang 5y ago
Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN, regardless of what other commenters may be doing. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

quantumBerry 5y ago

I pay $1200 a month for my toddler's education and now you want me to pay more taxes for someone else's college? Or were you arguing against a straw man that I was talking about whether the public should fund K-12 at all? Public investment in collegiate system is already non-zero. Perhaps you've heard of them, they're called "public college" like "North Dakota State University." Do you understand where the "state" comes from? Which is why I made the statement about spending even more money, not whether we spend it at all. The US gets some of the poorest returns on K-12 education, and we need to get that sorted out before we look at funding the collegiate system further.

Spivak 5y ago
Yes because that's how taxes work. You don't have any individual say over where your taxes go. Assuming that you're talking about your local tax burden for public schools you're paying $1200/mo. for everyone's elementary school education. When spread over a population all it does it move money around, that money is right now is being spent on people's college educations and the economic hammer-on effects reach you as well. It's not so simple as "if I don't personally feel like I got a 'free' college education then I'm losing money." The thing people want when they say "make college free" is "a college education is free at the point of delivery" not that it's actually without cost. Also we are allowed to do two things at once. There is no reason that a country of millions of people has to focus on one thing at a time that has the potential to benefit everyone. I say this as someone who has zero skin in this game. I went to private school as a child. I paid off my student loans, I cannot have children. I will in my lifetime not directly benefit from publicly funded education k-12 or college -- I still want this policy.
- quantumBerry 5y ago
  >Assuming that you're talking about your local tax burden for public schools you're paying $1200/mo. $1200 is what I pay in private education for my toddler before taxes start. I am not rich and this is a very large part of my paycheck. No one helps me with this, no subsidies, no nothing, but I'm supposed to pay even more for someone else's college at gunpoint of federal agents under the taxation system. I'm with you on _wanting_ children to succeed. And adults. I have tutored GED for adults who didn't finish high school, and I did it for free. More money doesn't necessarily mean better education. I pay all of my toddler's education (taxpayers won't help me like they will with K-12 kids). And like most HNers I'm paying out more taxes to fund these programs than the average person. I'm doing my part, now I want the government to handle my money responsibly before I hand them more.
  - valarauko 5y ago
    > $1200 is what I pay in private education for my toddler before taxes start. Why do you pay $1200/month for the private education of a toddler, considering this is a significant fraction of your paycheck? I'm assuming there's some special circumstances here, but as a non-American I can only guess.
fullstop 5y ago
Will you be upset when your toddler is no longer in school and you're still paying school taxes?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
throwawaycities 5y ago
Using your example of North Dakota State University. They have about 15,000 students. Over 50% get federal student loans averaging about 6,500/student/year. That is $48,750,000 per year is taxpayer funded loans going to your State school.
orhmeh09 5y ago
If you insist on being a pedant, you had better realize that "North Dakota State University" contains neither "public" nor "college." Revise and resubmit!
jeffy90 5y ago
Does the US actually get poor returns on K-12 education? I assume that public K-12 education contributes a lot to the economy in the form of an educated population. Wouldn't both the economy and tax revenue shrink without K-12?
- quantumBerry 5y ago
  Our ROI is significantly worse than many other developed nations such as Germany, Canada, and Finland [1]. You wouldn't keep throwing more money at a problem until you find out what is going wrong and that those managing it having solved their fiscal responsibility problems. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/07/us-education-spending-finland-south-korea https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/07/us-education...
gsk22 5y ago
> I pay $1200 a month for my toddler's education and now you want me to pay more taxes for someone else's college? I pay $1200 a month for my guns and weaponry, and now you want me to pay more taxes for someone else's defense? I pay $1200 a month for my privately maintained road, and now you want me to pay more taxes for someone else's travel? I pay $1200 a month for my own on-call firefighting brigade, and now you want me to pay taxes for someone else's fire? See how foolish that is? Your private, discretionary spending has NOTHING to do with the amount of taxes you should or do pay.
- quantumBerry 5y ago
  Glad to see in the past two weeks your only comments have been to come here and speak only with me, on two completely unrelated threads. I'm sure this will be a genuine discussion. You've schooled yourself, as you just told me education is discretionary spending. Sounds like you're arguing against taxation for education. In your words, my kid's education is a "private" matter that has "NOTHING" to do with taxes. If you're paying $1200 for your own fire brigade because the taxpayer funded one doesn't go to your address, I'd say it's pretty foolish to be paying taxes on the expansion plan for the fire brigade going to most of the rest of the county (but not your address!). inside joke: Hope gsk22 is your legal name, this isn't an MMO.
  - dang 5y ago
    Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar—this is exactly the wrong direction to go, even if you were provoked. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: it looks like you've been doing this repeatedly already; could you please not? It's destructive of everything we're trying to have here.
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. We're trying for something else here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
dang 5y ago
Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. We're trying for something else here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
- quantumBerry 5y ago
  The comment I replied to: "Yea let’s go back to life when most citizens didn’t get a primary school education let alone high school. You think 100% of families will prioritize tuition for toddlers when it’s a discretionary expense? Or will the bid up rent costs?" The fact that this above comment I genuinely replied to was not flagged nor rebuked by yourself, yet my genuine and upvoted response was flagged and rebuked, tells me all I need to know about what you're "trying for."
  - dang 5y ago
    You can't assume that we see all the comments. There are too many for us to see them all: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=likeliest%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... We do our level best to be even-handed, but it's way too much to expect perfectly consistent moderation, just like it's too much to expect cops to give tickets to all speeders. Of course it always feels like you're the one getting singled out and pulled over, but that's a cognitive bias we all suffer from: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22always%20feels%22%20mods%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... --- It's true that https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28382933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28382933 was in the flamewar style and shouldn't have been. But that comment was in reply to you (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28382789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28382789), and your comment was in precisely the same style. So if we're going to try to be consistent here, the transitive logic of finger-pointing at previous comments means you end up pointing at your own. I've scolded both of those comments now.
    - 5y ago

dang 5y ago

Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN, regardless of what other commenters may be doing. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html