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> and you decide to change to a different one just to avoid a small license fee, That’s an oversimplification of the issue. I really don’t care about the smal

> and you decide to change to a different one just to avoid a small license fee, That’s an oversimplification of the issue. I really don’t care about the small monetary cost. I do, however, care about adding yet another recurring license fee to my already long list of recurring charges and licenses to manage across the team. It’s not necessarily Docker’s fault, but I think many of us are experiencing a lot of SaaS fatigue with the ever-growing list of services and plans and recurring charges that need to be managed. Evaluating alternatives isn’t just about dodging a nominal fee. It’s about avoiding yet another recurring overhead and associated hassle, however small, that comes with every additional subscription.

johannes1234321 5y ago
Oh, all those subscriptions. Office space, cleaning, drinks, coffee, electricity, heating, water, ... Dealing with expenses is part of running a business. Sure there's a lot, but that's part of it.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  I pay my electricity by the watt, and I pay for water because without it, we die. I don't really care about your $25/month Wiki/Container/Notes SaaS as much. If you raise the price anywhere along the subscription chain, this little frog is going to jump out long before you start boiling the water.
  - dgellow 5y ago
    Before you had a free lunch. Now they set a price on it. You check if the value you get from their product is worth the price they ask for (IMHO they priced it way too low). If that doesn’t match then you move away. Economics 101. The way people describe the situation in this thread makes it like they have been betrayed by their spouses… Nobody is exploiting anyone else, only one side decided to ask something in exchange for their beloved product. And only from large companies!
- rpdillon 5y ago
  You're correct. My experience procuring SaaS (or even just self-hosted software licenses) is that there's a very different process for those than there is for sandwiches or janitorial staff. The engineers are always involved, but the negotiation process is arduous _every time_, and requires looping in the procurement team, who is essentially paid by how much of a discount they get off of sticker. So there I am, trying to run a suite of services for the company I work for, and every renewal is an existential crisis where the procurement team plays chicken with the vendor to see who will crack first in the negotiation, all the while the license expiration for my service is creeping ever closer. I've suffered large production outages because of this dynamic, and I'm tired of it: it's a totally avoidable risk, and I view part of my value to my employer as helping them avoid totally avoidable risks. So, I tend to go for open source or "bundled" solutions (like AWS) where I can avoid this process. I suspect this is what GP was getting at.

johannes1234321 5y ago

Oh, all those subscriptions. Office space, cleaning, drinks, coffee, electricity, heating, water, ... Dealing with expenses is part of running a business. Sure there's a lot, but that's part of it.

smoldesu 5y ago
I pay my electricity by the watt, and I pay for water because without it, we die. I don't really care about your $25/month Wiki/Container/Notes SaaS as much. If you raise the price anywhere along the subscription chain, this little frog is going to jump out long before you start boiling the water.
- dgellow 5y ago
  Before you had a free lunch. Now they set a price on it. You check if the value you get from their product is worth the price they ask for (IMHO they priced it way too low). If that doesn’t match then you move away. Economics 101. The way people describe the situation in this thread makes it like they have been betrayed by their spouses… Nobody is exploiting anyone else, only one side decided to ask something in exchange for their beloved product. And only from large companies!
rpdillon 5y ago
You're correct. My experience procuring SaaS (or even just self-hosted software licenses) is that there's a very different process for those than there is for sandwiches or janitorial staff. The engineers are always involved, but the negotiation process is arduous _every time_, and requires looping in the procurement team, who is essentially paid by how much of a discount they get off of sticker. So there I am, trying to run a suite of services for the company I work for, and every renewal is an existential crisis where the procurement team plays chicken with the vendor to see who will crack first in the negotiation, all the while the license expiration for my service is creeping ever closer. I've suffered large production outages because of this dynamic, and I'm tired of it: it's a totally avoidable risk, and I view part of my value to my employer as helping them avoid totally avoidable risks. So, I tend to go for open source or "bundled" solutions (like AWS) where I can avoid this process. I suspect this is what GP was getting at.