4 ms·

Try going out in public naked or running a few red lights and then come back and troll some more about your "rights". The world is full of rules to prevent you

by titzer 5y ago

Try going out in public naked or running a few red lights and then come back and troll some more about your "rights". The world is full of rules to prevent you from being a jerk and endangering others.

bsaul 5y ago
rules preventing you from doing something is one thing, but injecting a new product some people still have doubts about (no matter if they're correct or not) is a very different matter. I'm amazed that people still come with the "safety belt" argument. We've had decades of increase protections about food additives, GMOs, hormones in animals, etc on the principle of precaution with everything related to health, because things in this matter are complex. And now for some reason, we should stop thinking about tradeoffs and unknown unknowns over long terms consequences eventhough we're talking about treating the whole world population.
- titzer 5y ago
  You gotta be joking, right? You realize the same people who are mouthing off about freedom believe in absolutely zero protections for consumers against food additives and are in a constant state of denial about environmental pollution that has drastically harmed human health and ecosystems right? They very same politicians hemming about freedoms and how vaccines are dangerous just give carte blanche to the marketplace to push whatever preservatives and addiction-inducing flavor molecules into foods are the most successful at jacking up the GDP. All the protections that you mentioned have been over the objections of the exact politicians that you no doubt support because they believe in "freedoms". Or whatever. You gotta get the MMR vaccine to go to a public school. You gotta get Tetanus and other vaccines to go to college.
  - babesh 5y ago
    Totally not true about tetanus and other vaccines to go to college. EDIT: Meningitis is the exception.
    - titzer 5y ago
      This is where I went to undergrad: https://www.purdue.edu/push/Immunization/ https://www.purdue.edu/push/Immunization/
      - babesh 5y ago
        Go look at ALL the other colleges. That is only one. https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/features/vaccines-for-college-students https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/features/vaccines-for-college... EDIT: Example, University of Texas, https://www.healthyhorns.utexas.edu/requiredvaccine/ https://www.healthyhorns.utexas.edu/requiredvaccine/ Meningitis and measles
  - bsaul 5y ago
    Your comment is pretty interesting, because i've had the intimate suspicion that the debate around public health measure to fight covid have been rendered impossible because of the trump / biden US election. The Dem vs Rep political fight seems to be ruining every single scientific debate it gets a hold on. FYI: i'm french, so i have absolutely no interest in that Dem vs Rep debate, and people here i know that are the most reluctant about vaccination with mRNA vaccines are the ones that are the closest to being ecologist activists. EDIT: as for other compulsory vaccines, that's why i mentioned "new product" / technology. We're not even talking about a new vaccine, we're talking about a completely new technology to produce an immunity response.
    - titzer 5y ago
      Forgive me for pattern-matching your political leanings; it's insufferable to deal with a dozen variants of "it's just a flu" mutated from the dear leader's mouth over here. You're right, real dialog on scientific matters is getting impossible, because people can't do basic research. If you'd like to read up on mRNA vaccines, here's an article from the pre-COVID days, before something as simple as a scientific advancement to fight disease became so politically charged. https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243 https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243 Ecological activists, by numbers, are a round off error in the debate over this vaccine. It is absolutely tainted with politics, as the majority of anti-vaxxers land on one side of the political spectrum. I know some. It's everything from "it's the mark of the beast" to "I'm not so sure about this". What really underlies it is a deep, irrational selfishness that doesn't want to do a damn thing, even if, and especially if COVID doesn't seem that risky for that person. That whole line of reasoning is a fail. People who want the pandemic to be over know that vaccination is the only way. Sitting on your ass, no matter what is in your head, and being another vessel for this shit to mutate is actively prolonging it. So yeah, I absolutely pounce on ignorant people who are prolonging this.
      - bsaul 5y ago
        I would be very careful to label an opinion as being ignorant, and then assert things like "people… know vaccination is the only way [to get rid of the pandemic]". The scientific community seems to be very divided on whether "getting rid of covid" is even a goal at this point (at least based on what i read on what virologist and epidemiologist say). I feel you (like many others) have failed to put their instinctive repulsion for the archetypal anti-vaxer aside and objectively evaluate the pros and cons of every strategy. EDIT: thanks for the paper, but already the title itself says it all and seem to comfort my position: "a new era in vaccinology". We all know what happens with 1.0 versions of a brand new tech, right ? I'll still take the time to read it entirely since you've taken the time to send it to me.
babesh 5y ago
Going out in the public naked is actually accepted in some parts of the world and it is a lot 'closer' than you think. For instance, go to one of the beaches right in Barcelona, topless. Another example, go to Baker Beach in SF, topless and bottomless. A third example, go to beaches in some of the Greek islands, topless and bottomless. Another example, in the summer, do you see men go around topless? Yet another example, go to bathhouses in Turkey or Japan. Yet another example, go to your local gym's locker room. Yet another example, all those tribal peoples that you read about. Many of them were topless and were often bottomless. Yet another example. Go to the Folsom Street Parade or Bay to Breakers in SF. How is this endangering anyone other than your prudishness that you want to impose on others?
refurb 5y ago
Your argument comes down to "we limit your rights in other ways, so limiting your rights in this way should be accepted". That's not a very convincing argument - it could be applied to anything. "We force you to show ID to fly on a plane, so being forced to show ID to access the internet should be accepted".

by titzer 5y ago

bsaul 5y ago

rules preventing you from doing something is one thing, but injecting a new product some people still have doubts about (no matter if they're correct or not) is a very different matter. I'm amazed that people still come with the "safety belt" argument. We've had decades of increase protections about food additives, GMOs, hormones in animals, etc on the principle of precaution with everything related to health, because things in this matter are complex. And now for some reason, we should stop thinking about tradeoffs and unknown unknowns over long terms consequences eventhough we're talking about treating the whole world population.

titzer 5y ago
You gotta be joking, right? You realize the same people who are mouthing off about freedom believe in absolutely zero protections for consumers against food additives and are in a constant state of denial about environmental pollution that has drastically harmed human health and ecosystems right? They very same politicians hemming about freedoms and how vaccines are dangerous just give carte blanche to the marketplace to push whatever preservatives and addiction-inducing flavor molecules into foods are the most successful at jacking up the GDP. All the protections that you mentioned have been over the objections of the exact politicians that you no doubt support because they believe in "freedoms". Or whatever. You gotta get the MMR vaccine to go to a public school. You gotta get Tetanus and other vaccines to go to college.
- babesh 5y ago
  Totally not true about tetanus and other vaccines to go to college. EDIT: Meningitis is the exception.
  - titzer 5y ago
    This is where I went to undergrad: https://www.purdue.edu/push/Immunization/ https://www.purdue.edu/push/Immunization/
    - babesh 5y ago
      Go look at ALL the other colleges. That is only one. https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/features/vaccines-for-college-students https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/features/vaccines-for-college... EDIT: Example, University of Texas, https://www.healthyhorns.utexas.edu/requiredvaccine/ https://www.healthyhorns.utexas.edu/requiredvaccine/ Meningitis and measles
- bsaul 5y ago
  Your comment is pretty interesting, because i've had the intimate suspicion that the debate around public health measure to fight covid have been rendered impossible because of the trump / biden US election. The Dem vs Rep political fight seems to be ruining every single scientific debate it gets a hold on. FYI: i'm french, so i have absolutely no interest in that Dem vs Rep debate, and people here i know that are the most reluctant about vaccination with mRNA vaccines are the ones that are the closest to being ecologist activists. EDIT: as for other compulsory vaccines, that's why i mentioned "new product" / technology. We're not even talking about a new vaccine, we're talking about a completely new technology to produce an immunity response.
  - titzer 5y ago
    Forgive me for pattern-matching your political leanings; it's insufferable to deal with a dozen variants of "it's just a flu" mutated from the dear leader's mouth over here. You're right, real dialog on scientific matters is getting impossible, because people can't do basic research. If you'd like to read up on mRNA vaccines, here's an article from the pre-COVID days, before something as simple as a scientific advancement to fight disease became so politically charged. https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243 https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243 Ecological activists, by numbers, are a round off error in the debate over this vaccine. It is absolutely tainted with politics, as the majority of anti-vaxxers land on one side of the political spectrum. I know some. It's everything from "it's the mark of the beast" to "I'm not so sure about this". What really underlies it is a deep, irrational selfishness that doesn't want to do a damn thing, even if, and especially if COVID doesn't seem that risky for that person. That whole line of reasoning is a fail. People who want the pandemic to be over know that vaccination is the only way. Sitting on your ass, no matter what is in your head, and being another vessel for this shit to mutate is actively prolonging it. So yeah, I absolutely pounce on ignorant people who are prolonging this.
    - bsaul 5y ago
      I would be very careful to label an opinion as being ignorant, and then assert things like "people… know vaccination is the only way [to get rid of the pandemic]". The scientific community seems to be very divided on whether "getting rid of covid" is even a goal at this point (at least based on what i read on what virologist and epidemiologist say). I feel you (like many others) have failed to put their instinctive repulsion for the archetypal anti-vaxer aside and objectively evaluate the pros and cons of every strategy. EDIT: thanks for the paper, but already the title itself says it all and seem to comfort my position: "a new era in vaccinology". We all know what happens with 1.0 versions of a brand new tech, right ? I'll still take the time to read it entirely since you've taken the time to send it to me.

babesh 5y ago

Going out in the public naked is actually accepted in some parts of the world and it is a lot 'closer' than you think. For instance, go to one of the beaches right in Barcelona, topless. Another example, go to Baker Beach in SF, topless and bottomless. A third example, go to beaches in some of the Greek islands, topless and bottomless. Another example, in the summer, do you see men go around topless? Yet another example, go to bathhouses in Turkey or Japan. Yet another example, go to your local gym's locker room. Yet another example, all those tribal peoples that you read about. Many of them were topless and were often bottomless. Yet another example. Go to the Folsom Street Parade or Bay to Breakers in SF. How is this endangering anyone other than your prudishness that you want to impose on others?

refurb 5y ago

Your argument comes down to "we limit your rights in other ways, so limiting your rights in this way should be accepted". That's not a very convincing argument - it could be applied to anything. "We force you to show ID to fly on a plane, so being forced to show ID to access the internet should be accepted".