4 ms·

Tesla must tell NHTSA how Autopilot sees emergency vehicles

30 points by samizdis 5y ago

aeternum 5y ago
This seems pretty fair. Tesla should be able to show both in simulation and in real-world that their cars detect and avoid emergency vehicles.
PaulHoule 5y ago
Note emergency vehicles get crashed into a LOT because they are often parked in strange places, driving in in extreme ways, etc.
- itsoktocry 5y ago
  Yes, they get crashed into by poor drivers not paying attention. How does an autonomous vehicle not detect or avoid a massive stationary object?
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    This is a known issue with all automatic emergency braking implementations across all automakers [1]. I would expect with Tesla's shift to full vision [2] for AEB, upcoming software updates would support detection of emergency vehicles (versus using the less robust radar sensor Tesla was using, and what legacy automakers continue to rely on). Drivers are still the responsible party in the event a driver assistance feature fails. [1] https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a24511826/safety-features-automatic-braking-system-tested-explained/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a24511826/safety-featu... [2] https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision
    - tmp_anon_22 5y ago
      > driver assistance feature fails This isn't a driver assistance feature. Its called autopilot. Auto- is short for autonomous. Defined as "having the freedom to govern itself or control its own affairs."
      - toomuchtodo 5y ago
        It is a driver assistance feature called autopilot. The language is very clear at feature enablement and in the user guide [1] that the driver is responsible for the vehicle at all times. You can't fix users who ignore very blatant product warnings, regardless of what the feature is called. Call it copilot, navigator, "supercruise" (GM) whatever you want, some users will still cause catastrophic failure modes due to their own poor choices. [1] https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot "Before using Autopilot, please read your Owner's Manual for instructions and more safety information. While using Autopilot, it is your responsibility to stay alert, keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times and maintain control of your car. Many of our Autopilot features, like Autosteer, Navigate on Autopilot and Summon, are disabled by default. To enable them, you must go to the Autopilot Controls menu within the Settings tab and turn them on. Before enabling Autopilot, the driver first needs to agree to “keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times” and to always “maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle.” Subsequently, every time the driver engages Autopilot, they are shown a visual reminder to “keep your hands on the wheel.""
  - PaulHoule 5y ago
    A really great way to lose your license is drive drunk, crash into an emergency vehicle, and blow. It's not to excuse (or call out) driving drunk, being a poorly trained AI, etc. but there are few things in life that so effectively: (a) present you with an exceptional event, and (b) have you held to account for misreacting so swiftly and surely.
notjustanymike 5y ago
Presumably "As targets" is not a valid answer.
88j88 5y ago
Seems like this is the type of information that should be considered before they are allowed to be driving the cars? We require drivers to be licensed to drive motor vehicles, except when the driver is not human?
mikewarot 5y ago
It sounds to me like Tesla needs to hire some chaos monkeys to increase the reliability of its systems. They could get a bunch of vehicles and put them in odd places, with poor road conditions, to simulate spills, etc... and see how good they really do.

30 points by samizdis 5y ago

This seems pretty fair. Tesla should be able to show both in simulation and in real-world that their cars detect and avoid emergency vehicles.

PaulHoule 5y ago

Note emergency vehicles get crashed into a LOT because they are often parked in strange places, driving in in extreme ways, etc.

itsoktocry 5y ago
Yes, they get crashed into by poor drivers not paying attention. How does an autonomous vehicle not detect or avoid a massive stationary object?
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  This is a known issue with all automatic emergency braking implementations across all automakers [1]. I would expect with Tesla's shift to full vision [2] for AEB, upcoming software updates would support detection of emergency vehicles (versus using the less robust radar sensor Tesla was using, and what legacy automakers continue to rely on). Drivers are still the responsible party in the event a driver assistance feature fails. [1] https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a24511826/safety-features-automatic-braking-system-tested-explained/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a24511826/safety-featu... [2] https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision
  - tmp_anon_22 5y ago
    > driver assistance feature fails This isn't a driver assistance feature. Its called autopilot. Auto- is short for autonomous. Defined as "having the freedom to govern itself or control its own affairs."
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago
      It is a driver assistance feature called autopilot. The language is very clear at feature enablement and in the user guide [1] that the driver is responsible for the vehicle at all times. You can't fix users who ignore very blatant product warnings, regardless of what the feature is called. Call it copilot, navigator, "supercruise" (GM) whatever you want, some users will still cause catastrophic failure modes due to their own poor choices. [1] https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot "Before using Autopilot, please read your Owner's Manual for instructions and more safety information. While using Autopilot, it is your responsibility to stay alert, keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times and maintain control of your car. Many of our Autopilot features, like Autosteer, Navigate on Autopilot and Summon, are disabled by default. To enable them, you must go to the Autopilot Controls menu within the Settings tab and turn them on. Before enabling Autopilot, the driver first needs to agree to “keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times” and to always “maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle.” Subsequently, every time the driver engages Autopilot, they are shown a visual reminder to “keep your hands on the wheel.""
- PaulHoule 5y ago
  A really great way to lose your license is drive drunk, crash into an emergency vehicle, and blow. It's not to excuse (or call out) driving drunk, being a poorly trained AI, etc. but there are few things in life that so effectively: (a) present you with an exceptional event, and (b) have you held to account for misreacting so swiftly and surely.

notjustanymike 5y ago

Presumably "As targets" is not a valid answer.

88j88 5y ago

Seems like this is the type of information that should be considered before they are allowed to be driving the cars? We require drivers to be licensed to drive motor vehicles, except when the driver is not human?

mikewarot 5y ago

It sounds to me like Tesla needs to hire some chaos monkeys to increase the reliability of its systems. They could get a bunch of vehicles and put them in odd places, with poor road conditions, to simulate spills, etc... and see how good they really do.