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Everyone, throughout their career, is going to see people excel that they feel are undeserving. The whole point of this article is that subconsciously, we all i

Everyone, throughout their career, is going to see people excel that they feel are undeserving. The whole point of this article is that subconsciously, we all imagine so-and-so and think, "Yes! Yes! That's why they did well! They were just a narcissist. And me, not being a narcissist, I could never have adopted those strategies, I couldn't have lived with myself. I'd rather have my character than a career." What does it change? Does it make you feel better? The prevailing thought around SV, or at least around the blogs of people in YC, is to make lossy generalizations about the types of people who should be accepted into an organization. They'll say, "Don't work with assholes". To be fair, I think that's pretty good advice for picking founders and early employees of a company. At the same time, I'm convinced that George Patton was an asshole and a bit of a narcissist, and was simultaneously a great asset in WWII for the US, and to accept both of these as true requires more room for nuance. The organizational structure of the military is not fundamentally different than any organizational structure. This article tries to paint our inability to weed out strong personalities as a bug in human relationships, instead of a feature. I think that's just plain wrong. Humans have had a lot of time to develop instincts when it comes to interpersonal relationships, and we would have a better sense of sniffing them out if it truly was as bad as it seems. It's definitely not fun to not be a narcissist and see one excel, but that doesn't mean that narcissists are toxic and detrimental to every organization they find themselves in. Sometimes, when the stakes are high, you need a George Patton to win a war. I think the corollary of this is that when business is good and the stakes are relatively low, you really don't need or want narcissists. The problem is that it's hard for an entire organization to know what camp they fall into.

emptysongglass 5y ago
I disagree with this take fundamentally and that's because I want to see the whole world grow kinder. Maybe your goals are different. I'd rather weed out "the assholes" than clamor to them for whatever skillset they possess. If they want to learn the ability to work with others, kindly (also a skillset), while contributing their knowledge, welcome them. But if they continue to harm others on their solo trip to glory, they should be struck down, admonished, called out. What's kind about that? Well, you've just saved tens, hundreds, thousands more from enduring their harm. We can imbue these qualities of kindness into our workplaces, our families, our communities by saying, "No, you will not," to the narcissists of the world. Human progress is good. It does not require the sacrifice of our innocent or benign to Moloch to fuel its engine.
- DonnyV 5y ago
  Not sure why the above comment by @emptysongglass is being downvoted. This is what we should be striving for.
  - wrnr 5y ago
    It might not be grandiose narcissism at display it does have a little hint of vulnerable narcissism.
  - CountDrewku 5y ago
    Because it's envisioning a false utopia where no one gets their feelings hurt, which is a subjective measurement. This reality doesn't exist, nor will it ever. What one person sees as narcissistic or asshole behavior the other person might not. Sometimes whether it makes people feel bad is irrelevant.
- nickysielicki 5y ago
  I would just argue that sometimes the ends justify the means. Had Patton been given more authority and given less reprimands (eg: for slapping lower soldiers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton_slapping_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton_slapping_inci... ), the war could very well have ended a year earlier. Everyone else was fine with fighting a war of attrition, whereas Patton recognized that aerial support had the potential to dramatically change the calculus of war. The Nazi camps could have been cleared months (if not years) earlier. You're speaking about tens, hundreds, thousands, but in this case we're talking about hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of lives could have been saved. It's nice to imagine a world where someone would have that sort of insight and also would be a nice person, but I think history teaches us that the two are inextricably tied together. Bill Gates built Microsoft while being ruthlessly cruel to people. Patton slapped soldiers. I don't think we can will these people out of existence. I think if we could, it would have already happened.
  - throwaway210222 5y ago
    > Had Patton been given more authority and given less reprimands … the war could very well have ended a year earlier. The war started because another arsehole was given more authority and less reprimands. The Enabling Act of 1933 was pitched as a temporary measure to "to Remedy the Distress of People and the Reich"" So no: its never worth giving a chop too much power. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/the-law-that-enabled-hitlers-dictatorship/a-16689839 https://www.dw.com/en/the-law-that-enabled-hitlers-dictators...

emptysongglass 5y ago

I disagree with this take fundamentally and that's because I want to see the whole world grow kinder. Maybe your goals are different. I'd rather weed out "the assholes" than clamor to them for whatever skillset they possess. If they want to learn the ability to work with others, kindly (also a skillset), while contributing their knowledge, welcome them. But if they continue to harm others on their solo trip to glory, they should be struck down, admonished, called out. What's kind about that? Well, you've just saved tens, hundreds, thousands more from enduring their harm. We can imbue these qualities of kindness into our workplaces, our families, our communities by saying, "No, you will not," to the narcissists of the world. Human progress is good. It does not require the sacrifice of our innocent or benign to Moloch to fuel its engine.

DonnyV 5y ago
Not sure why the above comment by @emptysongglass is being downvoted. This is what we should be striving for.
- wrnr 5y ago
  It might not be grandiose narcissism at display it does have a little hint of vulnerable narcissism.
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  Because it's envisioning a false utopia where no one gets their feelings hurt, which is a subjective measurement. This reality doesn't exist, nor will it ever. What one person sees as narcissistic or asshole behavior the other person might not. Sometimes whether it makes people feel bad is irrelevant.
nickysielicki 5y ago
I would just argue that sometimes the ends justify the means. Had Patton been given more authority and given less reprimands (eg: for slapping lower soldiers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton_slapping_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton_slapping_inci... ), the war could very well have ended a year earlier. Everyone else was fine with fighting a war of attrition, whereas Patton recognized that aerial support had the potential to dramatically change the calculus of war. The Nazi camps could have been cleared months (if not years) earlier. You're speaking about tens, hundreds, thousands, but in this case we're talking about hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of lives could have been saved. It's nice to imagine a world where someone would have that sort of insight and also would be a nice person, but I think history teaches us that the two are inextricably tied together. Bill Gates built Microsoft while being ruthlessly cruel to people. Patton slapped soldiers. I don't think we can will these people out of existence. I think if we could, it would have already happened.
- throwaway210222 5y ago
  > Had Patton been given more authority and given less reprimands … the war could very well have ended a year earlier. The war started because another arsehole was given more authority and less reprimands. The Enabling Act of 1933 was pitched as a temporary measure to "to Remedy the Distress of People and the Reich"" So no: its never worth giving a chop too much power. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/the-law-that-enabled-hitlers-dictatorship/a-16689839 https://www.dw.com/en/the-law-that-enabled-hitlers-dictators...