4 ms·

The thing that many folks don't understand is that it's not that "Titles don't matter", it's that "Titles don't matter when compared across companies". There's

The thing that many folks don't understand is that it's not that "Titles don't matter", it's that "Titles don't matter when compared across companies". There's not a universal definition of say, "senior software engineer", so comparing titles across companies will always be an apples/oranges exercise. Titles do matter, but only when in the proper context.

sponaugle 5y ago
One area that was not discussed at length was the transition from a high tier to a medium tier. In that case the HR at the medium tier often put a lot of weight into the title. I have seen HR teams say thing like "That person was not a principal engineer in their previous job" so they need to come in at a lower level here. They (HR) often don't recognized tiers within the industry, and use titles as a proxy for skill. Many HR staff view a change in title as a direct indication of skill, and when they see someone go from 'Sr. Software Engineer' to 'Software Engineer' they assume a skill demotion. In one of my earlier companies we used the title 'member of technical staff' in a pretty broad context, and I later heard that it was problematic for some people in getting interviews in future jobs. It is stupid, of course, but also a reality.
- itronitron 5y ago
  At one of my previous employers I noticed that a few of my coworkers had created/inflated their job titles on their business cards, so I asked my manager (without naming names) if that was allowed, to which they said it was fine as long as you don't claim to be CEO.
- brundolf 5y ago
  I worked at a company that called everyone Member of the Technical Staff (were you at Cycorp too?), and I just put a more descriptive title on my LinkedIn, resume, etc. I never had a use for business cards so the issue never came up
  - sponaugle 5y ago
    Ah, no. This was a company called eFusion, which was an early VOIP telecom spinoff from Intel (which is where I started at). The Member of Technical Staff was a very east coast Bell labs like title, which didn't really translate well to other schemes.
gwbas1c 5y ago
Titles only matter to me when I need what they communicate. Once, when working in a distributed team where I was going to be the lead, it was critical to me that I was "promoted" to a more senior title than the people I was working with. I didn't care what the title was, nor did I care for the money. (I didn't get a raise.) All that mattered was that the title established who was in charge. It didn't matter what the title was.
ryandrake 5y ago
When a big tech (or FAANG) company acquires a smaller company, it very often happens that the smaller company's employees' titles all get adjusted. SmallScrappyCo's CEO becomes the team's Senior Manager. SmallScrappyCo's VP of engineering becomes Regular Engineering Manager. I've worked directly with former Directors who suddenly became "third engineer from the left" after their company was acquired.
- discordance 5y ago
  hierarchy mapping
Pokepokalypse 5y ago
There ARE formal definitions of positions, title/rank, and requirements for experience and education, (as well as pay range) defined by the US Federal Government's Office of Personnel Management. These are used for determining staffing requirements in government contracting and hiring. Most mature government contracting companies follow these standards. In private industry, though - it's like Lord of the Flies. As far as I've seen.

sponaugle 5y ago

One area that was not discussed at length was the transition from a high tier to a medium tier. In that case the HR at the medium tier often put a lot of weight into the title. I have seen HR teams say thing like "That person was not a principal engineer in their previous job" so they need to come in at a lower level here. They (HR) often don't recognized tiers within the industry, and use titles as a proxy for skill. Many HR staff view a change in title as a direct indication of skill, and when they see someone go from 'Sr. Software Engineer' to 'Software Engineer' they assume a skill demotion. In one of my earlier companies we used the title 'member of technical staff' in a pretty broad context, and I later heard that it was problematic for some people in getting interviews in future jobs. It is stupid, of course, but also a reality.

itronitron 5y ago
At one of my previous employers I noticed that a few of my coworkers had created/inflated their job titles on their business cards, so I asked my manager (without naming names) if that was allowed, to which they said it was fine as long as you don't claim to be CEO.
brundolf 5y ago
I worked at a company that called everyone Member of the Technical Staff (were you at Cycorp too?), and I just put a more descriptive title on my LinkedIn, resume, etc. I never had a use for business cards so the issue never came up
- sponaugle 5y ago
  Ah, no. This was a company called eFusion, which was an early VOIP telecom spinoff from Intel (which is where I started at). The Member of Technical Staff was a very east coast Bell labs like title, which didn't really translate well to other schemes.

gwbas1c 5y ago

Titles only matter to me when I need what they communicate. Once, when working in a distributed team where I was going to be the lead, it was critical to me that I was "promoted" to a more senior title than the people I was working with. I didn't care what the title was, nor did I care for the money. (I didn't get a raise.) All that mattered was that the title established who was in charge. It didn't matter what the title was.

ryandrake 5y ago

When a big tech (or FAANG) company acquires a smaller company, it very often happens that the smaller company's employees' titles all get adjusted. SmallScrappyCo's CEO becomes the team's Senior Manager. SmallScrappyCo's VP of engineering becomes Regular Engineering Manager. I've worked directly with former Directors who suddenly became "third engineer from the left" after their company was acquired.

discordance 5y ago
hierarchy mapping

Pokepokalypse 5y ago

There ARE formal definitions of positions, title/rank, and requirements for experience and education, (as well as pay range) defined by the US Federal Government's Office of Personnel Management. These are used for determining staffing requirements in government contracting and hiring. Most mature government contracting companies follow these standards. In private industry, though - it's like Lord of the Flies. As far as I've seen.