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> The only things really stopping average people from using Linux are ignorance of the issues and laziness. Or, y'a know, they upgraded their system but the ne

> The only things really stopping average people from using Linux are ignorance of the issues and laziness. Or, y'a know, they upgraded their system but the new version of the kernel isn't compatible with the bluetooth device unless they patch the bios, but the bios patching tool from the vendor somehow destroys the grub entries due to an unrelated bug, requiring them to boot in a recovery disk, mount the encrypted volume, map the lvm volumes, chroot and ... I've used Linux exclusively on the desktop for almost 20 years. Has it gotten much better? Yes. Are there still deal intractable problems for normal users which aren't Linux's fault but nonetheless represent deal breakers? Also yes.

JCharante 5y ago
We teach people general math skills that 90% of them don't use after graduating high schools. Why not also teach these computer skills that aren't directly relevant to their careers but will be of use given that in modern societies people use computers?
- atonse 5y ago
  But they’re only of use if you choose Linux and run into problems. You can use a computer perfectly fine on macOS without knowing those things.
smallerfish 5y ago
Eh, there's a sweet spot. I installed Ubuntu on my dad's computer 12 years ago, showed him how to upload his photos, and to use the browser and abiword, and left him to it. I apply updates remotely every 6 months or so, and do OS upgrades every few years between LTS versions. It's been rock solid. Otoh my mom was on ubuntu for about 18 months and switched back to windows. She wanted to do more with it, e.g. install photoshop, scan documents (this was pre ubuntu coming out with simple scan or whatever, when xsane was still state of the art), yada yada. For relatives who just need a stable set-it-and-forget-it computer, linux is fine. For wannabe "power users", they have to be interested in investing the time to get over the learning curve. That's a more evangelical sell. I'm kind of with the author, although am a little less strident about it - "ehh, I haven't used windows in 20 years or so, but let me google that for you and see if I find anything you can try" is my usual approach.
zinekeller 5y ago
You know, while I do understand the reasons for the unstable kernel ABIs, that's actually what detracts me from personally recommending Linux unless if I know full well their needs. Even using printers is a pain (which I hope it will solve in the near future with standardised tools). Web browsing and web browsing only? Full speed! But beyond that, I'm not so sure that Linux will be ready. Plus while GNU and Linux user-level ABIs are stable, and LSB means that portability is nearly seamless (except if the GNU or Linux part is swapped itself), other APIs do break, especially when it comes to desktop elements. Snaps and Flatpaks accentuate the problem to the point that even if the system and app uses the same desktop environment (GTK on GTK / KDE-QT on KDE-QT), it looks like out of place. More importantly, Microsoft have focused on accessibility to the point that it can be navigated by keyboard, mouse or (recently) touch alone. GNOME settings (aka control center) don't navigate well on keyboard, not even allowing selecting search results (https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#g-c-c-and-orca https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes...).
- ac29 5y ago
  > Even using printers is a pain Ever since I learned that something like 98% of printers sold in the past 5 years or so support driverless printing with IPP, my printer woes have largely gone away. Its still more of a pain than would be ideal, but at least you dont have to track down some 32-bit only driver that was only ever released for Red Hat or something in order to print.
Bancakes 5y ago
You can have debian stable forever, and only update LTS kernels every 2 years or less. Some of my smartphones run linux 2.x.

JCharante 5y ago

We teach people general math skills that 90% of them don't use after graduating high schools. Why not also teach these computer skills that aren't directly relevant to their careers but will be of use given that in modern societies people use computers?

atonse 5y ago
But they’re only of use if you choose Linux and run into problems. You can use a computer perfectly fine on macOS without knowing those things.

smallerfish 5y ago

Eh, there's a sweet spot. I installed Ubuntu on my dad's computer 12 years ago, showed him how to upload his photos, and to use the browser and abiword, and left him to it. I apply updates remotely every 6 months or so, and do OS upgrades every few years between LTS versions. It's been rock solid. Otoh my mom was on ubuntu for about 18 months and switched back to windows. She wanted to do more with it, e.g. install photoshop, scan documents (this was pre ubuntu coming out with simple scan or whatever, when xsane was still state of the art), yada yada. For relatives who just need a stable set-it-and-forget-it computer, linux is fine. For wannabe "power users", they have to be interested in investing the time to get over the learning curve. That's a more evangelical sell. I'm kind of with the author, although am a little less strident about it - "ehh, I haven't used windows in 20 years or so, but let me google that for you and see if I find anything you can try" is my usual approach.

zinekeller 5y ago

You know, while I do understand the reasons for the unstable kernel ABIs, that's actually what detracts me from personally recommending Linux unless if I know full well their needs. Even using printers is a pain (which I hope it will solve in the near future with standardised tools). Web browsing and web browsing only? Full speed! But beyond that, I'm not so sure that Linux will be ready. Plus while GNU and Linux user-level ABIs are stable, and LSB means that portability is nearly seamless (except if the GNU or Linux part is swapped itself), other APIs do break, especially when it comes to desktop elements. Snaps and Flatpaks accentuate the problem to the point that even if the system and app uses the same desktop environment (GTK on GTK / KDE-QT on KDE-QT), it looks like out of place. More importantly, Microsoft have focused on accessibility to the point that it can be navigated by keyboard, mouse or (recently) touch alone. GNOME settings (aka control center) don't navigate well on keyboard, not even allowing selecting search results (https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#g-c-c-and-orca https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes...).

ac29 5y ago
> Even using printers is a pain Ever since I learned that something like 98% of printers sold in the past 5 years or so support driverless printing with IPP, my printer woes have largely gone away. Its still more of a pain than would be ideal, but at least you dont have to track down some 32-bit only driver that was only ever released for Red Hat or something in order to print.

Bancakes 5y ago

You can have debian stable forever, and only update LTS kernels every 2 years or less. Some of my smartphones run linux 2.x.