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> Refusing to support my friends' and family members' devices that do not run Linux is the next step in my personal fight against products that run bad software

> Refusing to support my friends' and family members' devices that do not run Linux is the next step in my personal fight against products that run bad software > So, when my mother, sister, brother, or anyone else comes to me begging to have his or her computer fixed Sorry to be blunt, but you sound like an terrible person with an over-dimensioned ego. If you do not want to support your family, fine - no need to announce it to the world. You are free to do that of course, but you have to bear the consequences of people saying "what a [put your favourite expletive here]" instead of "what a wise person to battle against mighty [put your least-favourite tech here]". I support my parents with their tech even if it is often full of things I would not have used. I roll my eyes up and fix it. And ask them not to do this anymore, and they still sometimes do. This is not that different from them telling me, 40 years back, to not do this and that. And me still doing it. Boy, I am really, really glad they did not decide to stop supporting me until I grow up :) Honestly, read what you wrote again and take a step back to say "ok, this sounds really bad". PS. when you gain back a lot of time for not supporting these technical noobs, make sure to fix your site that has plenty of problems - it does not look good for an "Itinerant Engineer" who built the impressive number of 11 web sites.

throw3849 5y ago
But he DOES support them, but answer is usually "I will install linux". Not everyone is Windows or MacOS expert. I do programming for 30 years. Las time I used Windows was 15 years ago. I never used Mac (maybe like 3 hours total).
- scambier 5y ago
  Just like the parent said then, > If you do not want to support your family, fine - no need to announce it to the world
  - JCharante 5y ago
    They do want to support their family, just not with bad software. It's the difference between being willing to give your kid a ride to sports practice vs a crack den. You do want to support your kid, just not enable them if they're going to be doing bad things.
    - fwsgonzo 5y ago
      Normally I would say that the difference isn't that great, but Windows 11 does seem to be something that you want people to stay away from, and knowing how Windows 10 was promoted - people will eventually be forced to install it. Just like Apple users are forced to install things, only to have their machine stop working well. Why deal with that? No thanks.
    - snet0 5y ago
      If you think supporting your child's crack addiction is in the same category as helping your child's PC problem, you need to take a step back and look at how you arrange your principles. Not all "bad things" are equivalent, as I hope you are aware.
      - JCharante 5y ago
        I agree with the sentiment that not all bad things are equally bad. However these are all life decisions, whether to be a helpless tech illiterate end-user or at least know how to navigate around a computer. If you want to learn how to use a Linux distro, then I will help you learn a valuable skillset, but if you want me to enable you to become a helpless end-user who doesn't know how to troubleshoot basic problems then I refuse to do it in my free time. At work I'd help anybody, but that's because I'm being paid to be helpful to my team and reach its maximum efficiency and work isn't the right place to stand by your ideals.
tokai 5y ago
>no need to announce it to the world Posting something on your own blog is hardly announcing to the world. Maybe you should have closed the tab, instead of announcing your disdain for the author to the world.
- kafkaIncarnate 5y ago
  But all the lost internet points...
  - BrandoElFollito 5y ago
    The what?
- BrandoElFollito 5y ago
  Posting something on a blog is announcing it to the world. And this of course, like everything wrong on internet, requires a prompt reply and comment.
revolvingocelot 5y ago
>I roll my eyes up and fix it Ooh, new idiom! The dot product of "roll my eyes" and "roll up my sleeves": to privately steel oneself to repetitive, ridiculous, and preventable work. >This is not that different from them telling me, 40 years back, to not do this and that. And me still doing it That's exactly it. The patterns and behaviours that they yelled at and fought with us about were harder to adopt than those which they demonstrated with quiet grace.
- BrandoElFollito 5y ago
  > Ooh, new idiom! Or "oh, non-native speaker of English"! > The patterns and behaviours that they yelled at I do not know how your childhood was but mine was without yells, but with extremely patient parents with two energetic boys. Said boys now try to be alike to their own children, and understand what parents went through. So they avoid being the assholes who will say "if you do not move to linux, fuck off" (this is how I read the article, at least, with my limited understanding of English)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
qayxc 5y ago
At the risk of being "that guy", I have to admit that the author lost sympathy with me after reading his "Doctors Don't Seem to Care if They Kill Their Patients"-article. This is either satire or a really cringeworthy personality.
- igetspam 5y ago
  > I don't own a cellphone, so it would not even have been an option for the receptionist to phone when my time came. That's from the doctors article but the linked one clearly says he has an Android phone. He smells like a younger Stallman wannabe.
  - SwiftyBug 5y ago
    To be fair, in the linked article they say they have an Android that's used as an e-reader and an MP3 player.
Bancakes 5y ago
You can only blame corporations for slacking off and following "worst practices". Yes, all my friends' and family's computers run windows 8.1 embedded, without updates, no AV, maxed out firewall. Yes, its insecure. Yes, microsoft decided not to have a separate update channel for security. Et cetera. It's a complete waste of time to roll back updates and drivers because Windows does something stupid by itself or makes very clickable popups to fool people. It's 2021 and Linux supports 99.999999% of software on the planet. Use it.
- BrandoElFollito 5y ago
  I am not sure if you have used Linux on desktop in any real life situation. For the record, I use Linux since 1994 when I did some dev for the kernel (not anything fancy, just some variations of code for a NIC). I use it since on all my servers. I also try, about once a year , to use it on the desktop for a week. It is pure torture, a system that is not even half baked for interactive usage.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    > I also try, about once a year , to use it on the desktop for a week. It is pure torture, a system that is not even half baked for interactive usage You can't seriously claim that when there are lots ( millions? Tens of millions? Who knows) of people running various Linux distros as daily drivers. Hardware support can be spotty in some places depending on the specific hardware vendor ( but funnily enough old stuff works better under Linux than under Windows), and some things might not be as polished, but "pure torture" and "not even half baked" is a terrible exaggeration doing nobody any favours. For the record, I've been running Ubuntu since 2017 on a Dell XPS 13 ( not developer edition). I have the occasional bug ( mostly with third-party stuff like Teams, or the VPN client breaking my DNS config (it also does than on macOS), but sometimes if i connect more than 4 Bluetooth devices reconnecting one of them takes ~10s instead of <3s), but overall it works, the tooling i can ise natively ( Dockers, etc.) is awesome and I'm happy with it. And anecdotally, I've had less issues than some colleagues with Windows (also Dells) or macOS.
    - 5y ago
robbedpeter 5y ago
Actually, it makes a lot of sense to talk about this type thing. So many consumers are utterly dependent on the free support of a small number technically adept family and friends. These people do a staggering amount to support tech companies for little to no recompense, and often their only reward is to be called upon more frequently and by more friends and family, and the network of further social circles in turn. If it's a child asking for help, obviously then just help them, and teach them how to use problem solving techniques if they're old enough. If they're adults, then you send them to a local IT support shop, or charge them normal rates for your own time. When the cost of ownership begins to exceed the technical literacy of users, the market may start to correct for some of the exploitation of consumer ignorance. A large number of adults have no business owning anything more complex than a rotary phone. It's immensely liberating to cut loose the users in your life when they begin to treat you as free tech support. It's also a really cool thing when people start to think for themselves and learn really basic troubleshooting by searching our watching videos. Even more liberating, though, is to take a principled stand, whether it's over privacy, free software, or whatever aspect of tech you feel strongly about. Sorry, I won't even visit for family dinners if you've got a Facebook portal or Amazon echo in your house. You can opt out of the panopticon, and I'll gladly give my time helping you do that, but other people don't get to opt me in to unaccountable surveillance networks. This guy's friends and family aren't entitled to his time in service of Microsoft products. Good on him for drawing a line in the sand. >>Sorry to be blunt, etc... Never do anything for free, and don't bend your principles or allow yourself to be used, even by family. The world would be a better place by far if fewer people got taken advantage of, and more people held to their values.

throw3849 5y ago

But he DOES support them, but answer is usually "I will install linux". Not everyone is Windows or MacOS expert. I do programming for 30 years. Las time I used Windows was 15 years ago. I never used Mac (maybe like 3 hours total).

scambier 5y ago
Just like the parent said then, > If you do not want to support your family, fine - no need to announce it to the world
- JCharante 5y ago
  They do want to support their family, just not with bad software. It's the difference between being willing to give your kid a ride to sports practice vs a crack den. You do want to support your kid, just not enable them if they're going to be doing bad things.
  - fwsgonzo 5y ago
    Normally I would say that the difference isn't that great, but Windows 11 does seem to be something that you want people to stay away from, and knowing how Windows 10 was promoted - people will eventually be forced to install it. Just like Apple users are forced to install things, only to have their machine stop working well. Why deal with that? No thanks.
  - snet0 5y ago
    If you think supporting your child's crack addiction is in the same category as helping your child's PC problem, you need to take a step back and look at how you arrange your principles. Not all "bad things" are equivalent, as I hope you are aware.
    - JCharante 5y ago
      I agree with the sentiment that not all bad things are equally bad. However these are all life decisions, whether to be a helpless tech illiterate end-user or at least know how to navigate around a computer. If you want to learn how to use a Linux distro, then I will help you learn a valuable skillset, but if you want me to enable you to become a helpless end-user who doesn't know how to troubleshoot basic problems then I refuse to do it in my free time. At work I'd help anybody, but that's because I'm being paid to be helpful to my team and reach its maximum efficiency and work isn't the right place to stand by your ideals.

tokai 5y ago

>no need to announce it to the world Posting something on your own blog is hardly announcing to the world. Maybe you should have closed the tab, instead of announcing your disdain for the author to the world.

kafkaIncarnate 5y ago
But all the lost internet points...
- BrandoElFollito 5y ago
  The what?
BrandoElFollito 5y ago
Posting something on a blog is announcing it to the world. And this of course, like everything wrong on internet, requires a prompt reply and comment.

revolvingocelot 5y ago

>I roll my eyes up and fix it Ooh, new idiom! The dot product of "roll my eyes" and "roll up my sleeves": to privately steel oneself to repetitive, ridiculous, and preventable work. >This is not that different from them telling me, 40 years back, to not do this and that. And me still doing it That's exactly it. The patterns and behaviours that they yelled at and fought with us about were harder to adopt than those which they demonstrated with quiet grace.

BrandoElFollito 5y ago
> Ooh, new idiom! Or "oh, non-native speaker of English"! > The patterns and behaviours that they yelled at I do not know how your childhood was but mine was without yells, but with extremely patient parents with two energetic boys. Said boys now try to be alike to their own children, and understand what parents went through. So they avoid being the assholes who will say "if you do not move to linux, fuck off" (this is how I read the article, at least, with my limited understanding of English)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

qayxc 5y ago

At the risk of being "that guy", I have to admit that the author lost sympathy with me after reading his "Doctors Don't Seem to Care if They Kill Their Patients"-article. This is either satire or a really cringeworthy personality.

igetspam 5y ago
> I don't own a cellphone, so it would not even have been an option for the receptionist to phone when my time came. That's from the doctors article but the linked one clearly says he has an Android phone. He smells like a younger Stallman wannabe.
- SwiftyBug 5y ago
  To be fair, in the linked article they say they have an Android that's used as an e-reader and an MP3 player.

Bancakes 5y ago

You can only blame corporations for slacking off and following "worst practices". Yes, all my friends' and family's computers run windows 8.1 embedded, without updates, no AV, maxed out firewall. Yes, its insecure. Yes, microsoft decided not to have a separate update channel for security. Et cetera. It's a complete waste of time to roll back updates and drivers because Windows does something stupid by itself or makes very clickable popups to fool people. It's 2021 and Linux supports 99.999999% of software on the planet. Use it.

BrandoElFollito 5y ago
I am not sure if you have used Linux on desktop in any real life situation. For the record, I use Linux since 1994 when I did some dev for the kernel (not anything fancy, just some variations of code for a NIC). I use it since on all my servers. I also try, about once a year , to use it on the desktop for a week. It is pure torture, a system that is not even half baked for interactive usage.
- sofixa 5y ago
  > I also try, about once a year , to use it on the desktop for a week. It is pure torture, a system that is not even half baked for interactive usage You can't seriously claim that when there are lots ( millions? Tens of millions? Who knows) of people running various Linux distros as daily drivers. Hardware support can be spotty in some places depending on the specific hardware vendor ( but funnily enough old stuff works better under Linux than under Windows), and some things might not be as polished, but "pure torture" and "not even half baked" is a terrible exaggeration doing nobody any favours. For the record, I've been running Ubuntu since 2017 on a Dell XPS 13 ( not developer edition). I have the occasional bug ( mostly with third-party stuff like Teams, or the VPN client breaking my DNS config (it also does than on macOS), but sometimes if i connect more than 4 Bluetooth devices reconnecting one of them takes ~10s instead of <3s), but overall it works, the tooling i can ise natively ( Dockers, etc.) is awesome and I'm happy with it. And anecdotally, I've had less issues than some colleagues with Windows (also Dells) or macOS.
  - 5y ago

robbedpeter 5y ago

Actually, it makes a lot of sense to talk about this type thing. So many consumers are utterly dependent on the free support of a small number technically adept family and friends. These people do a staggering amount to support tech companies for little to no recompense, and often their only reward is to be called upon more frequently and by more friends and family, and the network of further social circles in turn. If it's a child asking for help, obviously then just help them, and teach them how to use problem solving techniques if they're old enough. If they're adults, then you send them to a local IT support shop, or charge them normal rates for your own time. When the cost of ownership begins to exceed the technical literacy of users, the market may start to correct for some of the exploitation of consumer ignorance. A large number of adults have no business owning anything more complex than a rotary phone. It's immensely liberating to cut loose the users in your life when they begin to treat you as free tech support. It's also a really cool thing when people start to think for themselves and learn really basic troubleshooting by searching our watching videos. Even more liberating, though, is to take a principled stand, whether it's over privacy, free software, or whatever aspect of tech you feel strongly about. Sorry, I won't even visit for family dinners if you've got a Facebook portal or Amazon echo in your house. You can opt out of the panopticon, and I'll gladly give my time helping you do that, but other people don't get to opt me in to unaccountable surveillance networks. This guy's friends and family aren't entitled to his time in service of Microsoft products. Good on him for drawing a line in the sand. >>Sorry to be blunt, etc... Never do anything for free, and don't bend your principles or allow yourself to be used, even by family. The world would be a better place by far if fewer people got taken advantage of, and more people held to their values.