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OpenBSD is well known to have a weak 802.11 stack that only supports a/b/g/sorta n modes on the most common drivers (Intel). This is not because OpenBSD someho

by juped 5y ago

OpenBSD is well known to have a weak 802.11 stack that only supports a/b/g/sorta n modes on the most common drivers (Intel). This is not because OpenBSD somehow sucks, it's because there's approximately two people doing all the wireless development in their spare time. But it's very understandable that someone would find it to be an issue. FreeBSD probably doesn't have this issue, but it's not exactly trivial to port a device driver.

messe 5y ago
As a user, I'm well aware of the state of OpenBSD's wireless stack. It's slower than the competition, but it's not 650kb/s slow.
- nix23 5y ago
  Its a Intel Dual Band Wireless-AC 7265NGW (ThinkPad x250) running with 802.11/g (the maximum), with the right driver and firmware. Sitting about 5m from the hotspot. BTW: The hardware is supported: https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?iwm(4) https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?iwm(4) >device iwm7265fw >Currently, iwm only supports 802.11b and 802.11g modes. https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=iwmfw&sektion=4&apropos=0&manpath=FreeBSD+13.0-RELEASE+and+Ports https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=iwmfw&sektion=4&ap... >iwm7265Dfw_load="YES" -> This one works >iwm7265fw_load="YES" -> This one is not working I would say OpenBSD is as behind as every single BSD is...from the Wireless standpoint.
MisterTea 5y ago
I've been on cat-v when devs were discussing developing wireless drivers for 9front (plan 9 fork) and most of these problems are due to lack of documentation. These cards are software driven so the driver isn't interacting with hardware registers or memory like an ethernet card but a protocol between the running firmware blob and the kernel. And you are responsible for loading that proprietary firmware into the card as well. You're essentially interacting with a black box. Its almost voodoo. Some cards work perfectly by copying OpenBSD drivers or have some documentation. Though many cards require cargo culting by copying undocumented behavior from undocumented Linux drivers in order to get the cards working. The big problem with that approach are issues which arise cant be debuged. Best they can do is poke around and guess. This whole thing is the fault of hardware manufactures.
- juped 5y ago
  OpenBSD gets hit the hardest because the devs are the most hardline about never signing an NDA or otherwise impairing the freeness of the drivers.
  - MisterTea 5y ago
    I agree with never signing an NDA because it leads to code which can not be reliably maintained as the only person who can maintain it is the person who signed the NDA. How do you perform code audits on those drivers? I have to assume most Linux WiFi drivers are written by people working for companies who get to see documentation via NDA as part of a company project OR the driver was written by the manufacturer who already knows how to talk to the card. So everyone else has to cargo cult those drivers by blindly copying the voodoo code and hope it initializes the card the same way it does in Linux. Someone suggested adding a driver compatibility layer to allow using FreeBSD drivers in 9front but the devs shot it down with "that layer would be bigger than the kernel itself" So now you're now responsible for maintaining that HUGE mess plus you're still dealing with black box drivers you hope someone else fixes when they don't work. No one wins. Again, the damn hardware manufactures have to give us proper hardware documentation. Until then they can go suck an egg.
    - nix23 5y ago
      >Until then they can go suck an egg. No, we suck an egg...that's the problem.

by juped 5y ago

messe 5y ago

As a user, I'm well aware of the state of OpenBSD's wireless stack. It's slower than the competition, but it's not 650kb/s slow.

nix23 5y ago
Its a Intel Dual Band Wireless-AC 7265NGW (ThinkPad x250) running with 802.11/g (the maximum), with the right driver and firmware. Sitting about 5m from the hotspot. BTW: The hardware is supported: https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?iwm(4) https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?iwm(4) >device iwm7265fw >Currently, iwm only supports 802.11b and 802.11g modes. https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=iwmfw&sektion=4&apropos=0&manpath=FreeBSD+13.0-RELEASE+and+Ports https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=iwmfw&sektion=4&ap... >iwm7265Dfw_load="YES" -> This one works >iwm7265fw_load="YES" -> This one is not working I would say OpenBSD is as behind as every single BSD is...from the Wireless standpoint.

MisterTea 5y ago

I've been on cat-v when devs were discussing developing wireless drivers for 9front (plan 9 fork) and most of these problems are due to lack of documentation. These cards are software driven so the driver isn't interacting with hardware registers or memory like an ethernet card but a protocol between the running firmware blob and the kernel. And you are responsible for loading that proprietary firmware into the card as well. You're essentially interacting with a black box. Its almost voodoo. Some cards work perfectly by copying OpenBSD drivers or have some documentation. Though many cards require cargo culting by copying undocumented behavior from undocumented Linux drivers in order to get the cards working. The big problem with that approach are issues which arise cant be debuged. Best they can do is poke around and guess. This whole thing is the fault of hardware manufactures.

juped 5y ago
OpenBSD gets hit the hardest because the devs are the most hardline about never signing an NDA or otherwise impairing the freeness of the drivers.
- MisterTea 5y ago
  I agree with never signing an NDA because it leads to code which can not be reliably maintained as the only person who can maintain it is the person who signed the NDA. How do you perform code audits on those drivers? I have to assume most Linux WiFi drivers are written by people working for companies who get to see documentation via NDA as part of a company project OR the driver was written by the manufacturer who already knows how to talk to the card. So everyone else has to cargo cult those drivers by blindly copying the voodoo code and hope it initializes the card the same way it does in Linux. Someone suggested adding a driver compatibility layer to allow using FreeBSD drivers in 9front but the devs shot it down with "that layer would be bigger than the kernel itself" So now you're now responsible for maintaining that HUGE mess plus you're still dealing with black box drivers you hope someone else fixes when they don't work. No one wins. Again, the damn hardware manufactures have to give us proper hardware documentation. Until then they can go suck an egg.
  - nix23 5y ago
    >Until then they can go suck an egg. No, we suck an egg...that's the problem.