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AMD 5850U beats Apple M1 in multicore performance by 29% having the same power consumption (15 Watt): https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/AMD-Ryzen-7-PRO-5850

AMD 5850U beats Apple M1 in multicore performance by 29% having the same power consumption (15 Watt): https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/AMD-Ryzen-7-PRO-5850U-vs-Apple-M1-8-Core-3200-MHz/4198vs4104 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/AMD-Ryzen-7-PRO-5850U-v... but is 19% slower in single core performance. However, if you consider that AMD uses 7nm and Apple 5nm technology to build their processors, AMD is a lot better.

andreasley 5y ago
"The TDP of the [AMD 5850U] APU is specified at 15 Watt (default) and can be configured from 10 to 25 Watt by the laptop vendor (most chips are configured higher than 15 Watt)." [1] I'd love to see actual measurements for both chips. [1] https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ryzen-7-PRO-5850U-Processor-Benchmarks-and-Specs.527809.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ryzen-7-PRO-5850U-Processo...
- cwizou 5y ago
  Yep, you can see the distribution of results (there aren't a lot) here and it's all over the place for the Ryzen vs M1 : Ryzen : https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+PRO+5850U&id=4198 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+PRO+585... M1 : https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M1+8+Core+3200+MHz&id=4104 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M1+8+Core+320... TDPs don't mean anything even within a vendor lineup, and doing cross comparison is futile (without properly measuring yourself the power consumption at load, then you can start doing real efficiency comparison or apple to apple).
- hajile 5y ago
  Also, Intel and AMD chips are allowed to greatly exceed those TDP numbers with as much as 50-60 watts peak consumption.
mishafb 5y ago
These days nanometers are just marketing, they are disconnected from the actual chip density
- BiteCode_dev 5y ago
  How so? Architecture?
- pantulis 5y ago
  When did this happen? I think I've read somewhere that process node size stopped being a meaningful indicator even decades ago.
- cwizou 5y ago
  Well in that case both are made by TSMC so it's comparable. But PassMark results in general are not that great (they use micro benchmarks that may not be representative or are optimised for by vendors). More importantly, as pointed out by a sibling comment, the AMD CPU in question (like most mobile Intel CPUs) has a "configurable" TDP which is set higher on most products sold. And PassMark doesn't differentiate those and only mention the "official" TDP. To PassMark credit, they give a distribution of performance scores, just compare the distribution of the Ryzen and the M1 and you'll see (you have to scroll down a bit to see the graphs) : Ryzen : https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+PRO+5850U&id=4198 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+PRO+585... M1 : https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M1+8+Core+3200+MHz&id=4104 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M1+8+Core+320... In general, you can't compare TDPs even within a brand, they rarely mean what it used to mean a few years back as they "innovate" with various turbo mechanism and other OEM configurable settings.
- ewg4345h43 5y ago
  Both chips are produced at TSMC factories, so both have the same meaning. We do not compare here two different manufacturers.
  - leucineleprec0n 5y ago
    Yeah, no. The libraries used can and do differ.
    - zorgmonkey 5y ago
jmkni 5y ago
How is the AMD in terms of heat? Have they matched Apple in terms of cooling requirements etc?
- qayxc 5y ago
  Given similar power consumption, cooling is up to the OEM, not the chipmaker. So this question should be directed at Clevo, Dell, HP, Lenovo, ASUS, Acer, Tongfang, etc. This is physics after all and 15W are 15W no matter if they go into an Apple M1 or an AMD Ryzen.
  - acdha 5y ago
    It’s not as simple as seeing 15W and saying the thermal load is the same: they don’t have constant usage so you have to compare the actual power usage for workloads you care about. Some manufacturers are more conservative so you need uncommon combinations to hit the maximum output whereas other chips will approach that in normal usage. This is also where design decisions matter: for example, a while back I measured hashing performance for some boxes which needed to check data integrity and an Intel chip handily lost despite being faster on everything else because the embedded processor I was comparing it to had dedicate SHA hardware which was both faster and more power efficient than a generic x86 implementation. That’s ancient history now but I would expect Apple to aggressively explore opportunities to improve their stack like that since they control it at every level - for example, I believe benchmarks have shown Objective-C message passing is considerably faster on M1.
    - qayxc 5y ago
      Optimising applications for specific hardware has nothing to do with the hardware manufacturer if the software and hardware come from different suppliers, though. Apple has the advantage of developing and deploying hardware, OS and system software completely in-house. AMD only supplies chips and basic firmware, both of which can be configured by OEMs/ODMs and the OS and software come from entirely different parties again. So the usage profile depends on external factors, not just the CPU itself. In the end, however, a 15W power budget is a 15W power budget and an M1 under full load and a Ryzen under full load will have the same thermal output if configured the same (as far as power consumption goes). How well the waste heat is managed is not in the hands of the CPU.
tumblewit 5y ago
‘Beats’ ‘benchmark’ ‘nm’ are all marketing terms. You can only do so much comparison using such numbers but what you miss completely is that we are not putting them in a server farm. x86 is still coming as a CPU offering while the M1 and ARM chips are SOCs. It reduces system power as far less separate chips are needed to do other stuff while simultaneously being much more performant. A 5850U miniPC uses a 65w power brick. An M1 mini sips at best 39W. You would have to compare 1.65xM1 with 1x5850U
- ewg4345h43 5y ago
  I don't think that this is correct. My laptop, Lenovo P14S GEN 2 AMD with 5850U CPU has 65 WATT USB-C power adapter. Half of that power will be consumed by monitor (4K and 500 cd/m²) and you write above that the whole system should consume 65 WATT... This is not possible at all, because there is only 30-35 WATT left for the whole system except monitor.
  - cwizou 5y ago
    Check the sibling comments, your CPU (like most mobile Intel/AMd) can be configured for different TDPs by the OEMs, so you can't compare anything, especially not PassMark results.
    - ewg4345h43 5y ago
      Yes, you can throttle the CPU, but then the CPU scores in Benchmarks will be lower and that's not the case... (Benchmarks are collected from different machines). So it looks the Macs consume pretty much the same amount of power.
      - cwizou 5y ago
        No, the TDP is configurable up to 25W (and down to 10). Again check the link of the score distribution I put in another comment, it's all over the place, and the passmark results are not a reliable comparison at that point.
      - 5y ago
ksec 5y ago
>AMD 5850U beats Apple M1 in multicore performance by 29% having the same power consumption (15 Watt): The last part is not entirely accurate. They have the same TDP. Not the same power consumption. Because 5850U doesn't use 15W in those test. The same goes to M1 which is closer to 20W Max. The word TDP means Typical TDP by both Intel and AMD and not what it means in literal sense. That is excluding cTDP and other state like PL2. Worth mentioning the M1 achieve those single thread performance at no more than 5W, if you put the two on equal footing, even accounting for the possible node improvement, M1 is still quite far ahead in terms of pref / watt. And the 5850 is already on Zen 3.
- leucineleprec0n 5y ago
  Indeed, thank you. It's plainly pathetic this has to be said so often, especially here FFS. Every time this topic comes up "AMD can do the same, 15W" as if the "15W" figure was a terminating value from a set of industry-standard "TDP" figures. It is not, and the "TDP" listed at best offers a clue as to the power draw. Not much more. Hell, it can even differ by motherboard config. Intel encourages it. The next emotional preservation tactic usually cites the old GF IO Die, but that was only on H/desktop series chips anyways and furthermore they still lose to Apple in sheer performance per watt. It's August 2021 and we still have to have this conversation. Sigh
  - omegalulw 5y ago
    It's really _highly_ misleading. I read OPs comment and assumed they are talking about measured power, not TDP.
- hajile 5y ago
  Don't forget the GPU either. With all the cores going full-out, the M1 can still run its GPU at high clocks. AMD reduced the CU count down to 8 and ramped the clockspeeds which is terrible for the thermal budget. If you need to offload stuff to the GPU, both GPU clocks and CPU clocks dramatically lower. AMD needs a 16CU design with RDNA2 if they hope to actually compete with current and upcoming designs. Speaking of upcoming, Apple's next generation will be announced in the next 2-3 weeks. A15 and either M1X or M2 (or maybe both) on N5P which should be 10-15% better than the previous N5 process. That's what 5850U is actually competing against considering how long it took to get out the door. Things aren't looking pretty for x86. Now if we could just get some nice RISC-V designs shipping...
e40 5y ago
Serious question, as I'm in the market: are there any mac mini like systems that feature an AMD 5850U? EDIT: not the same processor: https://simplynuc.com/cbm1r8rb/ https://simplynuc.com/cbm1r8rb/
- hajile 5y ago
  I'd consider waiting a couple weeks. There's several rumors that the redesigned Mac Mini is coming soon. It should have an 8 big-core (and 2-4 little cores) variant and probably up to 64gb of RAM as options in a much smaller package (most of the M1 mini was empty space because it reused the x86 case).
r00fus 5y ago
Can 5850U run fanless at full load? That's the table-stakes that Apple has raised.

andreasley 5y ago

"The TDP of the [AMD 5850U] APU is specified at 15 Watt (default) and can be configured from 10 to 25 Watt by the laptop vendor (most chips are configured higher than 15 Watt)." [1] I'd love to see actual measurements for both chips. [1] https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ryzen-7-PRO-5850U-Processor-Benchmarks-and-Specs.527809.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ryzen-7-PRO-5850U-Processo...

cwizou 5y ago
Yep, you can see the distribution of results (there aren't a lot) here and it's all over the place for the Ryzen vs M1 : Ryzen : https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+PRO+5850U&id=4198 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+PRO+585... M1 : https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M1+8+Core+3200+MHz&id=4104 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M1+8+Core+320... TDPs don't mean anything even within a vendor lineup, and doing cross comparison is futile (without properly measuring yourself the power consumption at load, then you can start doing real efficiency comparison or apple to apple).
hajile 5y ago
Also, Intel and AMD chips are allowed to greatly exceed those TDP numbers with as much as 50-60 watts peak consumption.

mishafb 5y ago

These days nanometers are just marketing, they are disconnected from the actual chip density

BiteCode_dev 5y ago
How so? Architecture?
pantulis 5y ago
When did this happen? I think I've read somewhere that process node size stopped being a meaningful indicator even decades ago.
cwizou 5y ago
Well in that case both are made by TSMC so it's comparable. But PassMark results in general are not that great (they use micro benchmarks that may not be representative or are optimised for by vendors). More importantly, as pointed out by a sibling comment, the AMD CPU in question (like most mobile Intel CPUs) has a "configurable" TDP which is set higher on most products sold. And PassMark doesn't differentiate those and only mention the "official" TDP. To PassMark credit, they give a distribution of performance scores, just compare the distribution of the Ryzen and the M1 and you'll see (you have to scroll down a bit to see the graphs) : Ryzen : https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+PRO+5850U&id=4198 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+PRO+585... M1 : https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M1+8+Core+3200+MHz&id=4104 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M1+8+Core+320... In general, you can't compare TDPs even within a brand, they rarely mean what it used to mean a few years back as they "innovate" with various turbo mechanism and other OEM configurable settings.
ewg4345h43 5y ago
Both chips are produced at TSMC factories, so both have the same meaning. We do not compare here two different manufacturers.
- leucineleprec0n 5y ago
  Yeah, no. The libraries used can and do differ.
  - zorgmonkey 5y ago

jmkni 5y ago

How is the AMD in terms of heat? Have they matched Apple in terms of cooling requirements etc?

qayxc 5y ago
Given similar power consumption, cooling is up to the OEM, not the chipmaker. So this question should be directed at Clevo, Dell, HP, Lenovo, ASUS, Acer, Tongfang, etc. This is physics after all and 15W are 15W no matter if they go into an Apple M1 or an AMD Ryzen.
- acdha 5y ago
  It’s not as simple as seeing 15W and saying the thermal load is the same: they don’t have constant usage so you have to compare the actual power usage for workloads you care about. Some manufacturers are more conservative so you need uncommon combinations to hit the maximum output whereas other chips will approach that in normal usage. This is also where design decisions matter: for example, a while back I measured hashing performance for some boxes which needed to check data integrity and an Intel chip handily lost despite being faster on everything else because the embedded processor I was comparing it to had dedicate SHA hardware which was both faster and more power efficient than a generic x86 implementation. That’s ancient history now but I would expect Apple to aggressively explore opportunities to improve their stack like that since they control it at every level - for example, I believe benchmarks have shown Objective-C message passing is considerably faster on M1.
  - qayxc 5y ago
    Optimising applications for specific hardware has nothing to do with the hardware manufacturer if the software and hardware come from different suppliers, though. Apple has the advantage of developing and deploying hardware, OS and system software completely in-house. AMD only supplies chips and basic firmware, both of which can be configured by OEMs/ODMs and the OS and software come from entirely different parties again. So the usage profile depends on external factors, not just the CPU itself. In the end, however, a 15W power budget is a 15W power budget and an M1 under full load and a Ryzen under full load will have the same thermal output if configured the same (as far as power consumption goes). How well the waste heat is managed is not in the hands of the CPU.

tumblewit 5y ago

‘Beats’ ‘benchmark’ ‘nm’ are all marketing terms. You can only do so much comparison using such numbers but what you miss completely is that we are not putting them in a server farm. x86 is still coming as a CPU offering while the M1 and ARM chips are SOCs. It reduces system power as far less separate chips are needed to do other stuff while simultaneously being much more performant. A 5850U miniPC uses a 65w power brick. An M1 mini sips at best 39W. You would have to compare 1.65xM1 with 1x5850U

ewg4345h43 5y ago
I don't think that this is correct. My laptop, Lenovo P14S GEN 2 AMD with 5850U CPU has 65 WATT USB-C power adapter. Half of that power will be consumed by monitor (4K and 500 cd/m²) and you write above that the whole system should consume 65 WATT... This is not possible at all, because there is only 30-35 WATT left for the whole system except monitor.
- cwizou 5y ago
  Check the sibling comments, your CPU (like most mobile Intel/AMd) can be configured for different TDPs by the OEMs, so you can't compare anything, especially not PassMark results.
  - ewg4345h43 5y ago
    Yes, you can throttle the CPU, but then the CPU scores in Benchmarks will be lower and that's not the case... (Benchmarks are collected from different machines). So it looks the Macs consume pretty much the same amount of power.
    - cwizou 5y ago
      No, the TDP is configurable up to 25W (and down to 10). Again check the link of the score distribution I put in another comment, it's all over the place, and the passmark results are not a reliable comparison at that point.
    - 5y ago

ksec 5y ago

>AMD 5850U beats Apple M1 in multicore performance by 29% having the same power consumption (15 Watt): The last part is not entirely accurate. They have the same TDP. Not the same power consumption. Because 5850U doesn't use 15W in those test. The same goes to M1 which is closer to 20W Max. The word TDP means Typical TDP by both Intel and AMD and not what it means in literal sense. That is excluding cTDP and other state like PL2. Worth mentioning the M1 achieve those single thread performance at no more than 5W, if you put the two on equal footing, even accounting for the possible node improvement, M1 is still quite far ahead in terms of pref / watt. And the 5850 is already on Zen 3.

leucineleprec0n 5y ago
Indeed, thank you. It's plainly pathetic this has to be said so often, especially here FFS. Every time this topic comes up "AMD can do the same, 15W" as if the "15W" figure was a terminating value from a set of industry-standard "TDP" figures. It is not, and the "TDP" listed at best offers a clue as to the power draw. Not much more. Hell, it can even differ by motherboard config. Intel encourages it. The next emotional preservation tactic usually cites the old GF IO Die, but that was only on H/desktop series chips anyways and furthermore they still lose to Apple in sheer performance per watt. It's August 2021 and we still have to have this conversation. Sigh
- omegalulw 5y ago
  It's really _highly_ misleading. I read OPs comment and assumed they are talking about measured power, not TDP.
hajile 5y ago
Don't forget the GPU either. With all the cores going full-out, the M1 can still run its GPU at high clocks. AMD reduced the CU count down to 8 and ramped the clockspeeds which is terrible for the thermal budget. If you need to offload stuff to the GPU, both GPU clocks and CPU clocks dramatically lower. AMD needs a 16CU design with RDNA2 if they hope to actually compete with current and upcoming designs. Speaking of upcoming, Apple's next generation will be announced in the next 2-3 weeks. A15 and either M1X or M2 (or maybe both) on N5P which should be 10-15% better than the previous N5 process. That's what 5850U is actually competing against considering how long it took to get out the door. Things aren't looking pretty for x86. Now if we could just get some nice RISC-V designs shipping...

e40 5y ago

Serious question, as I'm in the market: are there any mac mini like systems that feature an AMD 5850U? EDIT: not the same processor: https://simplynuc.com/cbm1r8rb/ https://simplynuc.com/cbm1r8rb/

hajile 5y ago
I'd consider waiting a couple weeks. There's several rumors that the redesigned Mac Mini is coming soon. It should have an 8 big-core (and 2-4 little cores) variant and probably up to 64gb of RAM as options in a much smaller package (most of the M1 mini was empty space because it reused the x86 case).

r00fus 5y ago

Can 5850U run fanless at full load? That's the table-stakes that Apple has raised.