2 ms·

Not all countries have policies that have led to systematic deportation of significant numbers of their citizens who have the legal right to be in the country.

Not all countries have policies that have led to systematic deportation of significant numbers of their citizens who have the legal right to be in the country. You've provided a personal view of your own experience - fair enough - but it's not a 'reality check' on the point made in the comment you replied to.

mytailorisrich 5y ago
Windrush is a diversion and strawman argument. The topic is the impact of Brexit and immigration procedures in general, and I believe I replied on point. I don't understand the level of emotional reactions which border on hysteria, frankly. Again, the UK has the right to control immigration like all countries have, and it is relatively straightforward and simple compared to many others. I am a EU citizen in the UK: yes, free movement has ended and that makes things less simple. This is not the end of the world. That's the reality check.
- klelatti 5y ago
  If you don't think deporting significant numbers of people who have lived in the UK all of their adult lives - and are legally entitled to be in the UK - warrants a strong emotional reaction then I think you're in a small minority. It's an appalling act that has devastated many families and caused untold worry for others. Windrush is not a straw man as it resulted from the Hostile Environment which remains in place and now applies much more widely. You may be lucky enough to escape its effects - and I hope you are - but downplaying it doesn't help anyone.
- mmarq 5y ago
  Windrush is not besides the point, because the UK government tried to repeat the same exercise with EU citizens. They even went as far as sending deportation letters to hundreds of random EU citizens, including doctors, university researchers, journalists and professionals (ie people with enough influence to get the attention of the press and with enough money to pay for a lawyer https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/23/home-office-apologises-for-letters-threatening-to-deport-eu-nationals https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/23/home-office...). I applied for the permanent resident status before the EU forced the UK to introduce the Settlement Scheme and I ended up sending kilograms of documentation to prove that I had lived in the UK for the previous 5 years. I could easily collect these documents because I only worked in FTSE companies, but my partner couldn’t because she worked for smaller firms that ceased activity and couldn’t provide reference letters. The process was clearly designed to prevent people from getting ILR, even if they had a right to it.
  - mytailorisrich 5y ago
    You're trying to make a mountain out of a mole-hill, and again I don't understand why. An error to a few people (100 out of millions) and that resulted in nothing at all is not evidence of nefarious policy. Sending payslips and council tax bills is hardly a problem for anyone who's been living and working in the UK, and that was a standard EU-wide procedure. It was not designed to be difficult or make people fail, it only required evidence that the applicant had been exercising "treaty rights", which is quit reasonable. I was not in favour of Brexit but there is no reason to invent problems where there are none.
    - gambiting 5y ago
      >>and that resulted in nothing at all is not evidence of nefarious policy. First of all, it doesn't result in nothing. I'm an EU citizen living in the UK and even though I haven't received a letter these sort of things make me deeply uncomfortable, to a point where this might be contributing to anxiety. So no, it's not nothing, these actions have consequences. And what do you mean it's not evidence of nefarious policy??? The policy is nefarous explicitly, by design, and publicly as well! The famour "hostile environment" established by Theresa May is exactly this - hostile. It's meant to make you feel unwelcome as an immigrant. >>there is no reason to invent problems where there are none. I really really wish I could have such a positive outlook on life where I could honestly go on an internet forum and say "invent problems where there are none" when it comes to EU citizens living in the UK. I'm jealous frankly.
    - mmarq 5y ago
      No, it’s not a standard procedure in any EU country I’m aware of. I’ve never heard of anybody outside of the UK sending payslips and doctor notes and reference letters and mobile phone bills to prove their residence status. If hundreds of thousands of people weren’t at risk of deportation, the Settlement Scheme would not have been necessary.
      - mytailorisrich 5y ago
        It is standard procedure in order to get formal proof of permanent residence. The thing is that no-one bothers with it because it is usually not needed. The procedure existed before the referendum, it did not change because of the result. What changed is that people suddenly thought that it may be useful and decided to apply. For instance, just to stay in English, if you're in Ireland this is the form: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Form-EUTR2.pdf/Files/Form-EUTR2.pdf http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Form-EUTR2.pdf/Files/Form-EUT... It's pretty much the exact same as the British one used to be, and as I already mentioned this is because it is based on an EU procedure, and so will be pretty much the same everywhere: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/eu-nationals-permanent-residence/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-fo... Note that some EU countries also require EU/EEA nationals to register with the police/local authorities, which the UK did not and so actually made life for EU citizens simpler that quite a few other EU countries. Another reality check here, apparently.
- gambiting 5y ago
  >>This is not the end of the world. That's the reality check. I feel like you're using these sentences to just say "suck it up and deal with it" and that's just really harsh for someone who feels like the rug has been pulled from under them. Making this country their home, and now being treated differently.

mytailorisrich 5y ago

Windrush is a diversion and strawman argument. The topic is the impact of Brexit and immigration procedures in general, and I believe I replied on point. I don't understand the level of emotional reactions which border on hysteria, frankly. Again, the UK has the right to control immigration like all countries have, and it is relatively straightforward and simple compared to many others. I am a EU citizen in the UK: yes, free movement has ended and that makes things less simple. This is not the end of the world. That's the reality check.

klelatti 5y ago
If you don't think deporting significant numbers of people who have lived in the UK all of their adult lives - and are legally entitled to be in the UK - warrants a strong emotional reaction then I think you're in a small minority. It's an appalling act that has devastated many families and caused untold worry for others. Windrush is not a straw man as it resulted from the Hostile Environment which remains in place and now applies much more widely. You may be lucky enough to escape its effects - and I hope you are - but downplaying it doesn't help anyone.
mmarq 5y ago
Windrush is not besides the point, because the UK government tried to repeat the same exercise with EU citizens. They even went as far as sending deportation letters to hundreds of random EU citizens, including doctors, university researchers, journalists and professionals (ie people with enough influence to get the attention of the press and with enough money to pay for a lawyer https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/23/home-office-apologises-for-letters-threatening-to-deport-eu-nationals https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/23/home-office...). I applied for the permanent resident status before the EU forced the UK to introduce the Settlement Scheme and I ended up sending kilograms of documentation to prove that I had lived in the UK for the previous 5 years. I could easily collect these documents because I only worked in FTSE companies, but my partner couldn’t because she worked for smaller firms that ceased activity and couldn’t provide reference letters. The process was clearly designed to prevent people from getting ILR, even if they had a right to it.
- mytailorisrich 5y ago
  You're trying to make a mountain out of a mole-hill, and again I don't understand why. An error to a few people (100 out of millions) and that resulted in nothing at all is not evidence of nefarious policy. Sending payslips and council tax bills is hardly a problem for anyone who's been living and working in the UK, and that was a standard EU-wide procedure. It was not designed to be difficult or make people fail, it only required evidence that the applicant had been exercising "treaty rights", which is quit reasonable. I was not in favour of Brexit but there is no reason to invent problems where there are none.
  - gambiting 5y ago
    >>and that resulted in nothing at all is not evidence of nefarious policy. First of all, it doesn't result in nothing. I'm an EU citizen living in the UK and even though I haven't received a letter these sort of things make me deeply uncomfortable, to a point where this might be contributing to anxiety. So no, it's not nothing, these actions have consequences. And what do you mean it's not evidence of nefarious policy??? The policy is nefarous explicitly, by design, and publicly as well! The famour "hostile environment" established by Theresa May is exactly this - hostile. It's meant to make you feel unwelcome as an immigrant. >>there is no reason to invent problems where there are none. I really really wish I could have such a positive outlook on life where I could honestly go on an internet forum and say "invent problems where there are none" when it comes to EU citizens living in the UK. I'm jealous frankly.
  - mmarq 5y ago
    No, it’s not a standard procedure in any EU country I’m aware of. I’ve never heard of anybody outside of the UK sending payslips and doctor notes and reference letters and mobile phone bills to prove their residence status. If hundreds of thousands of people weren’t at risk of deportation, the Settlement Scheme would not have been necessary.
    - mytailorisrich 5y ago
      It is standard procedure in order to get formal proof of permanent residence. The thing is that no-one bothers with it because it is usually not needed. The procedure existed before the referendum, it did not change because of the result. What changed is that people suddenly thought that it may be useful and decided to apply. For instance, just to stay in English, if you're in Ireland this is the form: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Form-EUTR2.pdf/Files/Form-EUTR2.pdf http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Form-EUTR2.pdf/Files/Form-EUT... It's pretty much the exact same as the British one used to be, and as I already mentioned this is because it is based on an EU procedure, and so will be pretty much the same everywhere: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/eu-nationals-permanent-residence/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-fo... Note that some EU countries also require EU/EEA nationals to register with the police/local authorities, which the UK did not and so actually made life for EU citizens simpler that quite a few other EU countries. Another reality check here, apparently.
gambiting 5y ago
>>This is not the end of the world. That's the reality check. I feel like you're using these sentences to just say "suck it up and deal with it" and that's just really harsh for someone who feels like the rug has been pulled from under them. Making this country their home, and now being treated differently.