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I've not noticed any decline in UK immigration as yet. If there is a decline and it is a problem, then the UK has the ability to address it as needed. If there

I've not noticed any decline in UK immigration as yet. If there is a decline and it is a problem, then the UK has the ability to address it as needed. If there is not a decline then there's not a problem. Speaking for my own workplace the effect of brexit has been to replace European migrants with more Indian migrants, not to actually reduce migration. Unless you believe that continental Europeans have some unique ability to found startups, I'm not sure there's much to worry about.

rich_sasha 5y ago
Noticed the empty shelves at the supermarkets? Something to do with no one being around to drive lorries? But ultimately, if you don't mind, that's good news to you. One thing less to worry about in a stressful world.
- JetSetWilly 5y ago
  I haven't noticed any empty shelves i have to say. There's is not a labour shortage of lorry drivers. There is increased demand, reduced supply (due to a pandemic on both counts) - but plenty of people who can drive a lorry and are licensed - who don't because salary is not competitive. If your argument was that wages were kept depressed due to cheap labour from abroad, and how terrible it is that we now have to pay lorry drivers and fruit pickers competitively, I'm not sure that's much of an argument.
  - alibarber 5y ago
    I'm a remain-er as much as the next guy (so much so I remain, as a Brit, in another EU country) but: "...but plenty of people who can drive a lorry and are licensed - who don't because salary is not competitive" Is really the crux of the issue. Getting a licence, whilst involving some moderate challenge, isn't exactly the most difficult or expensive thing to do. It's been a crappy job for a while and relying on it being filled by immigrants who had no better alternatives isn't a sustainable solution anywhere.
  - atsjie 5y ago
    > There's is not a labour shortage of lorry drivers. There is increased demand, reduced supply (due to a pandemic on both counts) - but plenty of people who can drive a lorry and are licensed Not sure what you mean by that, BBC mentiones a lack of 100.000 drivers just a few days ago: https://www.bbc.com/news/57810729 https://www.bbc.com/news/57810729 That's a shortage, no matter how you turn it regardless if people are not available or simply don't want to do it. Sure, pay can increase but so will the price of goods and components, having a knock-on effect on the rest of the economy and making UK less competitive as a result. Companies want to move stuff and they see no profitable means to do so. I'm in The Netherlands, there's a driver shortage here too but it's mostly eastern europeans filling the void. With an unemployment rate of 3% why bother with a boring away-from-home job? Unless Trucking is your hobby essentially. I imagine most people in the UK feel the same way; there's better jobs available now with the economy opening up.
- CodeGlitch 5y ago
  > Noticed the empty shelves at the supermarkets? Something to do with no one being around to drive lorries? Yes there are fewer drivers, however my understanding was that this was due to "pingdemic", a lot of drivers not able to work due to isolation. Additionally there were fewer new drivers trained last year, because of obvious reasons. Also Brexit means there are fewer EU drivers able to work here, but I think the above as had more of an effect.
- mmarq 5y ago
  The majority of Europeans do not work on lorries or in supermarkets. EU citizens in the UK earn significantly more than locals and are significantly better educated. The real problem here is not lack of undereducated supermarket clerks (we can easily replace them with locals), the real problem is that software developers and lawyers and doctors and accountants and whatnot won’t cross the Channel anymore. Special visas may work for seasonal workers and cleaners, but I wouldn’t move to the UK with a 1-year visa to earn just 70K£ pa (which is more than twice the average salary of a local). I would stop spreading the fake news of Europeans being the servants of the Britons.
  - rich_sasha 5y ago
    There's both I guess. There are whole industries dominated by immigrants, too. And guess what, they are the ones now experiencing severe staff shortages. Since labour frictions tend to be absolute, not proportional to e.g. salaries, they are always going to be less acute in better-paid, higher-profile jobs. It doesn't mean they are any less grating to the people who experience them.
    - mmarq 5y ago
      The lack of lorry drivers is more likely to be caused by the changes to IR35. Lorry drivers would set up companies to use a tax loophole and not pay NI and income tax. Now they can’t, take home pay went down and drivers are harder to find.

rich_sasha 5y ago

Noticed the empty shelves at the supermarkets? Something to do with no one being around to drive lorries? But ultimately, if you don't mind, that's good news to you. One thing less to worry about in a stressful world.

JetSetWilly 5y ago
I haven't noticed any empty shelves i have to say. There's is not a labour shortage of lorry drivers. There is increased demand, reduced supply (due to a pandemic on both counts) - but plenty of people who can drive a lorry and are licensed - who don't because salary is not competitive. If your argument was that wages were kept depressed due to cheap labour from abroad, and how terrible it is that we now have to pay lorry drivers and fruit pickers competitively, I'm not sure that's much of an argument.
- alibarber 5y ago
  I'm a remain-er as much as the next guy (so much so I remain, as a Brit, in another EU country) but: "...but plenty of people who can drive a lorry and are licensed - who don't because salary is not competitive" Is really the crux of the issue. Getting a licence, whilst involving some moderate challenge, isn't exactly the most difficult or expensive thing to do. It's been a crappy job for a while and relying on it being filled by immigrants who had no better alternatives isn't a sustainable solution anywhere.
- atsjie 5y ago
  > There's is not a labour shortage of lorry drivers. There is increased demand, reduced supply (due to a pandemic on both counts) - but plenty of people who can drive a lorry and are licensed Not sure what you mean by that, BBC mentiones a lack of 100.000 drivers just a few days ago: https://www.bbc.com/news/57810729 https://www.bbc.com/news/57810729 That's a shortage, no matter how you turn it regardless if people are not available or simply don't want to do it. Sure, pay can increase but so will the price of goods and components, having a knock-on effect on the rest of the economy and making UK less competitive as a result. Companies want to move stuff and they see no profitable means to do so. I'm in The Netherlands, there's a driver shortage here too but it's mostly eastern europeans filling the void. With an unemployment rate of 3% why bother with a boring away-from-home job? Unless Trucking is your hobby essentially. I imagine most people in the UK feel the same way; there's better jobs available now with the economy opening up.
CodeGlitch 5y ago
> Noticed the empty shelves at the supermarkets? Something to do with no one being around to drive lorries? Yes there are fewer drivers, however my understanding was that this was due to "pingdemic", a lot of drivers not able to work due to isolation. Additionally there were fewer new drivers trained last year, because of obvious reasons. Also Brexit means there are fewer EU drivers able to work here, but I think the above as had more of an effect.
mmarq 5y ago
The majority of Europeans do not work on lorries or in supermarkets. EU citizens in the UK earn significantly more than locals and are significantly better educated. The real problem here is not lack of undereducated supermarket clerks (we can easily replace them with locals), the real problem is that software developers and lawyers and doctors and accountants and whatnot won’t cross the Channel anymore. Special visas may work for seasonal workers and cleaners, but I wouldn’t move to the UK with a 1-year visa to earn just 70K£ pa (which is more than twice the average salary of a local). I would stop spreading the fake news of Europeans being the servants of the Britons.
- rich_sasha 5y ago
  There's both I guess. There are whole industries dominated by immigrants, too. And guess what, they are the ones now experiencing severe staff shortages. Since labour frictions tend to be absolute, not proportional to e.g. salaries, they are always going to be less acute in better-paid, higher-profile jobs. It doesn't mean they are any less grating to the people who experience them.
  - mmarq 5y ago
    The lack of lorry drivers is more likely to be caused by the changes to IR35. Lorry drivers would set up companies to use a tax loophole and not pay NI and income tax. Now they can’t, take home pay went down and drivers are harder to find.