5 ms·

As an alternate data point, my partner is a non-EU immigrant living in the UK. The immigration process was relatively straightforward, visa renewal was easy and

As an alternate data point, my partner is a non-EU immigrant living in the UK. The immigration process was relatively straightforward, visa renewal was easy and she's rarely felt any hostility, unwelcoming or anyone looking down on her for being foreign. We do live in London, however my family are from elsewhere so we've spent plenty of time in other parts. Surveys generally say the UK and US attitude to immigrants is pretty similar, for example [1]. I'm not a fan of Brexit and wish it hadn't happened, but on the other hand I feel like the idea that there's been a huge anti-immigration shift in the UK to be exaggerated. If anything, our attitudes towards immigration have continued their trend of softening since the vote. Most other countries around the world get to apply discretion over which immigrants can settle there - why is it wrong if the UK also gets to do that? The upset seems to be mostly from rich western EU citizens, bothered that they are no longer an exception and are now treated exactly as any other country. Many of our ethnically Indian citizens, for example, voted for Brexit. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/03/14/around-the-world-more-say-immigrants-are-a-strength-than-a-burden/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/03/14/around-the-wor...

rich_sasha 5y ago
I talk to my children in Polish. Almost never before Brexit would random people ask me where I'm from or what language I'm speaking. Now it's all the time, and often with a gentle roll of the eyes afterwards. We don't live in London btw. I'd never go as far as saying it's terrible, but it's markedly different than it was.
- cameronh90 5y ago
  Obviously I won't dispute your experience, and I'm sad that you have to go through that. It's never something we've experienced in any part of the UK so far, and we often speak in non-English (well, me not very well - as a typical British person, English is my only fluent language). However, I should add that when I was growing up 20+ years ago (also not in London), this kind of thing was much more common. Indeed, it was quite a lot worse. A roll of the eyes was probably the best you could expect. Some of the more unsavoury characters would walk around at night looking for members of particular immigrant groups to beat up, and people would talk about this as if it was perfectly normal and fine. Thankfully, that is no longer remotely acceptable. The long term trend has been greatly softening attitudes towards immigration. Perhaps the divisive Brexit campaign has knocked it back a bit, but when I compare us now to even 10-15 years ago, it still feels like we're practically a different country to how we were when I grew up.
  - the_mitsuhiko 5y ago
    > The long term trend has been greatly softening attitudes towards immigration. I strongly dispute this. The UK has anything but a softened attitude towards immigration in recent years. It was bad enough that it made me leave because I felt the longer term trend is not going to be good for me and my family and I'm a white European. You might not see it as much if you're not directly affected, but the discourse on the news and social media in the UK has degraded greatly since Brexit and that even happens on some rural public busses now. I think the UK both wants to think of itself as world open, but a huge part of the population does not like it. Now it's conflicted of what it wants as a country.
    - CodeGlitch 5y ago
      > I think the UK both wants to think of itself as world open, but a huge part of the population does not like it. Now it's conflicted of what it wants as a country. Yes isn't it great that we live in a democracy, and have the population decide which direction they would like the country to go in.
      - the_mitsuhiko 5y ago
        Unfortunately you only have one country and it hosts a population that’s split right in the middle on that issue.
      - piva00 5y ago
        Sure, but as far as I understand democracy, for it to really work you need well informed citizens. I would say that metric isn't trending up in most countries on Earth at this moment.
        CodeGlitch 5y ago
        Agreed, but hasn't that always been the case? I'm not sure a better solution exists either. Perhaps a series of questions before you're allowed to vote that tests your understanding of the principles of the choices you are voting for? Also I'm guessing you are suggesting that voters who voted leave where uniformed? (Please correct me if I'm wrong). I still don't believe that to be the case. The run up to the election there was wall-to-wall coverage on the subject across TV, radio and the internet.

rich_sasha 5y ago

I talk to my children in Polish. Almost never before Brexit would random people ask me where I'm from or what language I'm speaking. Now it's all the time, and often with a gentle roll of the eyes afterwards. We don't live in London btw. I'd never go as far as saying it's terrible, but it's markedly different than it was.

cameronh90 5y ago
Obviously I won't dispute your experience, and I'm sad that you have to go through that. It's never something we've experienced in any part of the UK so far, and we often speak in non-English (well, me not very well - as a typical British person, English is my only fluent language). However, I should add that when I was growing up 20+ years ago (also not in London), this kind of thing was much more common. Indeed, it was quite a lot worse. A roll of the eyes was probably the best you could expect. Some of the more unsavoury characters would walk around at night looking for members of particular immigrant groups to beat up, and people would talk about this as if it was perfectly normal and fine. Thankfully, that is no longer remotely acceptable. The long term trend has been greatly softening attitudes towards immigration. Perhaps the divisive Brexit campaign has knocked it back a bit, but when I compare us now to even 10-15 years ago, it still feels like we're practically a different country to how we were when I grew up.
- the_mitsuhiko 5y ago
  > The long term trend has been greatly softening attitudes towards immigration. I strongly dispute this. The UK has anything but a softened attitude towards immigration in recent years. It was bad enough that it made me leave because I felt the longer term trend is not going to be good for me and my family and I'm a white European. You might not see it as much if you're not directly affected, but the discourse on the news and social media in the UK has degraded greatly since Brexit and that even happens on some rural public busses now. I think the UK both wants to think of itself as world open, but a huge part of the population does not like it. Now it's conflicted of what it wants as a country.
  - CodeGlitch 5y ago
    > I think the UK both wants to think of itself as world open, but a huge part of the population does not like it. Now it's conflicted of what it wants as a country. Yes isn't it great that we live in a democracy, and have the population decide which direction they would like the country to go in.
    - the_mitsuhiko 5y ago
      Unfortunately you only have one country and it hosts a population that’s split right in the middle on that issue.
    - piva00 5y ago
      Sure, but as far as I understand democracy, for it to really work you need well informed citizens. I would say that metric isn't trending up in most countries on Earth at this moment.
      - CodeGlitch 5y ago
        Agreed, but hasn't that always been the case? I'm not sure a better solution exists either. Perhaps a series of questions before you're allowed to vote that tests your understanding of the principles of the choices you are voting for? Also I'm guessing you are suggesting that voters who voted leave where uniformed? (Please correct me if I'm wrong). I still don't believe that to be the case. The run up to the election there was wall-to-wall coverage on the subject across TV, radio and the internet.