4 ms·

I guess the two values I see are having an extra level in your varieties of punishment - a "nuclear option" perhaps. The other is softer - I am curious how nor

by yomly 5y ago

I guess the two values I see are having an extra level in your varieties of punishment - a "nuclear option" perhaps. The other is softer - I am curious how normalising pain may positively benefit a developing child. Could it build toughness? Might my child be more likely to stand up to a bully? From a self defence perspective, a big part of personal development is overcoming aversion to pain - eg not flinching in boxing/mma. In any case I think there are alternatives to learning these lessons and disciplining your children and I think in our environment it would do a lot of emotional damage that isn't worth the benefits - hence why I probably won't hit my children. That said, I find it curious that only one to two generations ago it was fully the norm.

distances 5y ago
> The other is softer - I am curious how normalising pain may positively benefit a developing child. Could it build toughness? Might my child be more likely to stand up to a bully? Aren't you worried this de-stigmatizes violence, and could lead either to adoption of violence as a problem-solving tool, or in general a society that accepts everyday violence? I'm living in a place where I never have felt physically threatened, not at dark streets or drunk alone or whatever. I do recognize large part of this is privilege of being a male, but I've always felt my physical well-being isn't threatened. I'd never try to fight back unless that's the last option, rather de-escalate, run away, call police.
tclancy 5y ago
That sounds really sad to me. >I am curious how normalising pain may positively benefit a developing child I feel like this is a story we were handed in prior generations (for context, I am 45) where people (specifically men) need to be "tough" but I don't think anyone really defined what that meant or why.
- yomly 5y ago
  I'm up for debating whether hitting your children makes them tough - I'm on the fence personally. Maybe tough is a dirty word. Not tough in the toxic masculine sense but tough as in resilient. Being physically tough can often build a self confidence and mental strength that many people underestimate. You'll never get me to agree that people don't need to be tough. Just as you should wear a seatbelt even if you're the safest driver in the world, you should be tough because you never know when adversity may come. Just like how you can't control for drivers around you. Maybe in a world only operating self driving cars can we stop wearing seat belts - and yet random failure will still happen. Bad weather, network failure, cosmic ray bitflips take your pick. Given you are 45, people of your parents' generations came from truly tough times. Plenty of people I know from my parents' generation remember what was like to be truly hungry. I've seen the UK slowly become more violent and dangerous in my own lifetime. We're facing increasingly unequal times, geopolitical tensions are high as world powers go for hegemon. We have a displaced workforce - much like the run up to WW1. Climate change may well bring even greater hardship. Summer lasted all of about 1.5 generations, I hope my children will be tough so that they have the resilience to face whatever the world throws at them and pick themselves up and always move forwards when they navigate the world we leave behind for them.
- yomly 5y ago
  Just to augment my reply with a more personal and positive note on toughness. As a kid I was super active, doing lots of physical sports and training very hard. By the time I was 18 I had that reckless abandon and confidence that only an 18 year old can have - that feeling of invincibility and that belief that anything is possible. Fast forward 10 years later after years of working super hard and not doing much exercise and accruing postural issues, I went skiing and felt very vulnerable and mortal - a stark shift from the me of 10 years prior! When I hit my 30s I made reacquiring that fitness again and started exercising super hard. Like 10-15 hours a week of intense physical training. To my surprise, I actually started to feel almost like an 18 year old again. I couldn't believe my subconscious outlook on life could be so malleable. What does this have to do with hitting kids and toughness? I've digressed a bit - I guess having some of that stoic grit is worth developing in children but I am undecided whether hitting children builds it in them.

by yomly 5y ago

distances 5y ago

> The other is softer - I am curious how normalising pain may positively benefit a developing child. Could it build toughness? Might my child be more likely to stand up to a bully? Aren't you worried this de-stigmatizes violence, and could lead either to adoption of violence as a problem-solving tool, or in general a society that accepts everyday violence? I'm living in a place where I never have felt physically threatened, not at dark streets or drunk alone or whatever. I do recognize large part of this is privilege of being a male, but I've always felt my physical well-being isn't threatened. I'd never try to fight back unless that's the last option, rather de-escalate, run away, call police.

tclancy 5y ago

That sounds really sad to me. >I am curious how normalising pain may positively benefit a developing child I feel like this is a story we were handed in prior generations (for context, I am 45) where people (specifically men) need to be "tough" but I don't think anyone really defined what that meant or why.

yomly 5y ago
I'm up for debating whether hitting your children makes them tough - I'm on the fence personally. Maybe tough is a dirty word. Not tough in the toxic masculine sense but tough as in resilient. Being physically tough can often build a self confidence and mental strength that many people underestimate. You'll never get me to agree that people don't need to be tough. Just as you should wear a seatbelt even if you're the safest driver in the world, you should be tough because you never know when adversity may come. Just like how you can't control for drivers around you. Maybe in a world only operating self driving cars can we stop wearing seat belts - and yet random failure will still happen. Bad weather, network failure, cosmic ray bitflips take your pick. Given you are 45, people of your parents' generations came from truly tough times. Plenty of people I know from my parents' generation remember what was like to be truly hungry. I've seen the UK slowly become more violent and dangerous in my own lifetime. We're facing increasingly unequal times, geopolitical tensions are high as world powers go for hegemon. We have a displaced workforce - much like the run up to WW1. Climate change may well bring even greater hardship. Summer lasted all of about 1.5 generations, I hope my children will be tough so that they have the resilience to face whatever the world throws at them and pick themselves up and always move forwards when they navigate the world we leave behind for them.
yomly 5y ago
Just to augment my reply with a more personal and positive note on toughness. As a kid I was super active, doing lots of physical sports and training very hard. By the time I was 18 I had that reckless abandon and confidence that only an 18 year old can have - that feeling of invincibility and that belief that anything is possible. Fast forward 10 years later after years of working super hard and not doing much exercise and accruing postural issues, I went skiing and felt very vulnerable and mortal - a stark shift from the me of 10 years prior! When I hit my 30s I made reacquiring that fitness again and started exercising super hard. Like 10-15 hours a week of intense physical training. To my surprise, I actually started to feel almost like an 18 year old again. I couldn't believe my subconscious outlook on life could be so malleable. What does this have to do with hitting kids and toughness? I've digressed a bit - I guess having some of that stoic grit is worth developing in children but I am undecided whether hitting children builds it in them.