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Whenever I used Lisp for real projects over past two decades, the development was an order of magnitude faster and powerful. To stay on the positive.

by amboo7 5y ago

mbrodersen 5y ago
So why isn’t the world full of brilliant software written in Lisp? Surely having a powerful language like that will make developers use it? And even if the non-Lisp enthusiasts don’t “get it” how come the Lisp enthusiasts isn’t blowing the rest of us away with awesome software? Honest question.
- diskzero 5y ago
  It is a good question and one with many nuances. There are large software applications out there written in Lisp and other "fringe" languages that intersect with everyday life but they are hidden away in various corporate infrastructures. Software trends develop for many reasons, not all of them logical. The time for Lisp being used as a general programming language may have passed, or the right set of circumstances have not yet come together. It is very difficult to predict programming language winners. What seems obvious in retrospect was not clear at all at the moment. I would like Lisp/Scheme/Racket to blow people away with awesome software. Questions raised about price are quite valid. Forcing people to use Emacs is not a path to greater Lisp adoption. There are those of us who have found career niches using Lisp, but there needs to a better effort both in education and tools. Resurrecting old Lisp environments and dragging them into the present day probably isn't the best solution. Perhaps the best solution is a VSCode environment coupled with real-world examples. More Todo lists and CRUD editors as examples haven't done a lot of good in driving adoption. Your questions might make some uncomfortable, but I like that you are asking them!
  - mbrodersen 5y ago
    Thanks for a great answer.
mbrodersen 5y ago
So why are you not using Lisp all the time? Honest question.
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  And if the answer is “nobody will hire a Lisp programmer” then surely all the Lisp lovers of the world could create a company and crush the competition with awesome software? If Lisp really is as powerful as they claim?
  - diskzero 5y ago
    A lot of Lisp lovers have found comfortable and profitable niches to practice their trade and aren't interested in forming companies or consultancies to crush the competition. Some Lisp lovers survived the AI winter of the 80s and have flashbacks of scrambling to port their tools over to Java. Some Lisp lovers are academics and education, not commerce, is where they find meaning. Your question motivates and challenges me. Some of the emerging and successful no-code platforms could have been written using Lisp. Maybe that is one possibility...
    - mbrodersen 5y ago
      Now thats the kind of thinking the Lisp community needs more of to be more successful. Find real world projects where Lips has an advantage and show the advantage by actually doing it. Or promote stories showing how Lisp has been used for cool projects in the past. I know some satellites were running on Lisp. Making it possible to remote REPL the satellite to fix issues. Now that is cool and shows one of the unique features of Lips that developers actually care about.

Whenever I used Lisp for real projects over past two decades, the development was an order of magnitude faster and powerful. To stay on the positive.

by amboo7 5y ago

Whenever I used Lisp for real projects over past two decades, the development was an order of magnitude faster and powerful. To stay on the positive.

mbrodersen 5y ago

So why isn’t the world full of brilliant software written in Lisp? Surely having a powerful language like that will make developers use it? And even if the non-Lisp enthusiasts don’t “get it” how come the Lisp enthusiasts isn’t blowing the rest of us away with awesome software? Honest question.

diskzero 5y ago
It is a good question and one with many nuances. There are large software applications out there written in Lisp and other "fringe" languages that intersect with everyday life but they are hidden away in various corporate infrastructures. Software trends develop for many reasons, not all of them logical. The time for Lisp being used as a general programming language may have passed, or the right set of circumstances have not yet come together. It is very difficult to predict programming language winners. What seems obvious in retrospect was not clear at all at the moment. I would like Lisp/Scheme/Racket to blow people away with awesome software. Questions raised about price are quite valid. Forcing people to use Emacs is not a path to greater Lisp adoption. There are those of us who have found career niches using Lisp, but there needs to a better effort both in education and tools. Resurrecting old Lisp environments and dragging them into the present day probably isn't the best solution. Perhaps the best solution is a VSCode environment coupled with real-world examples. More Todo lists and CRUD editors as examples haven't done a lot of good in driving adoption. Your questions might make some uncomfortable, but I like that you are asking them!
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  Thanks for a great answer.

mbrodersen 5y ago

So why are you not using Lisp all the time? Honest question.

mbrodersen 5y ago
And if the answer is “nobody will hire a Lisp programmer” then surely all the Lisp lovers of the world could create a company and crush the competition with awesome software? If Lisp really is as powerful as they claim?
- diskzero 5y ago
  A lot of Lisp lovers have found comfortable and profitable niches to practice their trade and aren't interested in forming companies or consultancies to crush the competition. Some Lisp lovers survived the AI winter of the 80s and have flashbacks of scrambling to port their tools over to Java. Some Lisp lovers are academics and education, not commerce, is where they find meaning. Your question motivates and challenges me. Some of the emerging and successful no-code platforms could have been written using Lisp. Maybe that is one possibility...
  - mbrodersen 5y ago
    Now thats the kind of thinking the Lisp community needs more of to be more successful. Find real world projects where Lips has an advantage and show the advantage by actually doing it. Or promote stories showing how Lisp has been used for cool projects in the past. I know some satellites were running on Lisp. Making it possible to remote REPL the satellite to fix issues. Now that is cool and shows one of the unique features of Lips that developers actually care about.