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I don't know about the quality of the pangolin or the HP but I can tell you that lenovos consumer level laptops are pretty trash quality wise. The thinkpads (a

I don't know about the quality of the pangolin or the HP but I can tell you that lenovos consumer level laptops are pretty trash quality wise. The thinkpads (at least the X,T and P models) tend to be a different story but even that is changing in recent years

smoldesu 5y ago
Really? I bought an Ideapad for my mom a few months ago and I was pretty impressed with the build quality. It was plastic (as all $450 laptops are) but felt relatively rugged, and the internals were surprisingly open too. I was rather happy with the thermals too, there wasn't much we could throw at it to make it sustain uncomfortable temps.
- deepsun 5y ago
  Plastic laptop cases are objectively better than metallic ones. Plastic doesn't heat up your legs that much, and good carbon plastic is stronger than steel, weight-wise. Subjectively, metallic feels better though.
  - smichel17 5y ago
    What about by volume? Also, stronger meaning what? There's a combination of factors here: not just whether it breaks, but also how (dent vs crack..). Also, how well it ages. Also, how much flex does it have and how does that affect the lifespan of the internal components? I don't know those answers; perhaps carbon plastic wins on all metrics. It would be interesting to learn.
    - xxs 5y ago
      >Also, stronger meaning what? Usually tensile strength. For example: Tensile strength: even a commodity PA6-GF30 (most half-decent tools are made of) is ~110MPa [according to ISO 527], cast Aluminum - would be ~150MPa (22K psi for the imperial folks) depending on the alloy. Of course, most laptops would be using an ABS blend, which is the hallmark low-quality tools. >Dents That would depend on the top finish, not so much of the material itself.
      - OJFord 5y ago
        > >Dents > That would depend on the top finish, not so much of the material itself. Would it? If I dropped an aluminium bodied laptop like a Macbook or HP Envy, I'd expect it might scuff and slightly dent at the point of impact. If I dropped the cheapest plastic bodied thing from Currys/Walmart/whatever, I'd expect it might scuff and crack the plastic between screws or something. What top finish would you apply to a cheap plastic laptop to make it 'ding' like aluminium instead of crack in a drop test?
        smoldesu 5y ago
        Plasti-dip.
        xxs 5y ago
        I would not consider cracks "dents". I already mentioned the cheap 'ABS' plastic, they would crack (also it's not UV stable). You can look up PA6-GF30 (nylon, 30% glass fiber reinforced) tools and they survive ~2m (6 feet) drop tests. Laptops won't do that as their screens would crash. Here: a popular video[0] of some massive abuse of a multimeter. Again, a good plastic with glass or carbon fiber reinforcement would have similar properties to al-mg body, yet feel cheap as most people consider all plastics quite the same. For example: polycarbonate, 30% carbon fiber would have tensile strength of 150MPa (which the same to cast aluminum) [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlA7-fh5nDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlA7-fh5nDQ
        OJFord 5y ago
        No, neither would I. I was agreeing with the commenter you replied to, that I'd expect a plastic laptop to crack, and a metal one to dent. If it has to be damaged, I'd prefer the dent. You said above that that was more to do with 'top finish' than 'material'; that's what I was responding to - how would you finish crackable plastic material to make it dent like aluminium/alloy instead.
  - 3np 5y ago
    Only "objectively" by your priorities. The fact that metal heats up your legs is also a benefit (e.g. better heat transmission = better performance and component lifetime in the same environment). As someone else noted, "strength" in material is not one-dimensional. Carbon plastic is still way more conducive to cracking, for one. Ergo, there is no "objectively better" choice between metal/plastic/carbon in the general case, it comes down to preferences, priorities and requirements.
- YetAnotherNick 5y ago
  Now, report the battery life of that after an year of use
- kitsunesoba 5y ago
  Just an anecdote, but I know someone who had an Ideapad gaming model and while it seemed solid brand new, a year or so in it started falling apart and by year two it was looking ragged just from normal usage, mostly at home on a desk or a lap (so no wear from travel or being knocked around in a bag). The issue seems to be less with structural design and particular choice of plastics that cause them to not hold up to wear.
  - 3np 5y ago
    On the flip side of this, I have an old 710S and apart from the now completely unusable micro-HDMI port it's held up really well throughout use and abuse over the years. Battery life holds up as well. If only it had a less brittle video-out and TB it would be close to perfect even today, but these to otherwise minor factors unfortunately make it close to useless apart from as a spare travel device.
luke2m 5y ago
They have gotten a lot better recently in my experience.
zumu 5y ago
> The thinkpads (at least the X,T and P models) tend to be a different story but even that is changing in recent years Maybe relative to Thinkpads of yesteryear, but in comparison to the field of professional laptops, they are still best in class.
- m00x 5y ago
  I bought a consumer-grade Lenovo (Flex 15") for about $1200 CAD. While it has amazing components like the AMD Ryzen, Radeon GPU, etc. The quality of the rest of the components is trash. The trackpad keeps disconnecting, the screen is very poorly backlit, the speakers sound like headphones that came with 1990 Walkmans. It's not a good laptop even if it looks good on paper.
  - zumu 5y ago
    Yea, I've heard mixed things about IdeaPads. My comment was specifically about _Think_Pads. The names are easy to confuse but are very different in build quality.
mark_l_watson 5y ago
I am using a Lenovo Duet Chromebook (has good Linux container support) right now, and it is cheap and has good build quality. It is not particularly fast but it was about $260 including pen and keyboard case.
caymanjim 5y ago
I spent over $2500 on a ThinkPad X1 Extreme three years ago. Died within three months (wouldn't turn on). Lenovo replaced all the innards, but then the 3D video didn't work at all. Had it replaced again. Two full replacements in the first six months. Later, I spilled a drink on the keyboard, and despite their claims of spill-resistant keyboards, it permanently fried eight random keys. By then it was past the warranty period (one year) and Lenovo was unwilling to service it at all. I was ready to pay, but it's not even an option. They told me I had to go through a third party. Couldn't even get any supposed "authorized repair center" to respond to my requests for estimates. A few months later, the video started going, and now it locks up a few minutes after booting. I get that shit happens and sometimes products have defects. I'm willing to put up with a reasonable amount of annoyance. I'll never buy another Lenovo product, though, because once you're out of warranty, you may as well throw the thing away. They don't care at all.

smoldesu 5y ago

Really? I bought an Ideapad for my mom a few months ago and I was pretty impressed with the build quality. It was plastic (as all $450 laptops are) but felt relatively rugged, and the internals were surprisingly open too. I was rather happy with the thermals too, there wasn't much we could throw at it to make it sustain uncomfortable temps.

deepsun 5y ago
Plastic laptop cases are objectively better than metallic ones. Plastic doesn't heat up your legs that much, and good carbon plastic is stronger than steel, weight-wise. Subjectively, metallic feels better though.
- smichel17 5y ago
  What about by volume? Also, stronger meaning what? There's a combination of factors here: not just whether it breaks, but also how (dent vs crack..). Also, how well it ages. Also, how much flex does it have and how does that affect the lifespan of the internal components? I don't know those answers; perhaps carbon plastic wins on all metrics. It would be interesting to learn.
  - xxs 5y ago
    >Also, stronger meaning what? Usually tensile strength. For example: Tensile strength: even a commodity PA6-GF30 (most half-decent tools are made of) is ~110MPa [according to ISO 527], cast Aluminum - would be ~150MPa (22K psi for the imperial folks) depending on the alloy. Of course, most laptops would be using an ABS blend, which is the hallmark low-quality tools. >Dents That would depend on the top finish, not so much of the material itself.
    - OJFord 5y ago
      > >Dents > That would depend on the top finish, not so much of the material itself. Would it? If I dropped an aluminium bodied laptop like a Macbook or HP Envy, I'd expect it might scuff and slightly dent at the point of impact. If I dropped the cheapest plastic bodied thing from Currys/Walmart/whatever, I'd expect it might scuff and crack the plastic between screws or something. What top finish would you apply to a cheap plastic laptop to make it 'ding' like aluminium instead of crack in a drop test?
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        Plasti-dip.
      - xxs 5y ago
        I would not consider cracks "dents". I already mentioned the cheap 'ABS' plastic, they would crack (also it's not UV stable). You can look up PA6-GF30 (nylon, 30% glass fiber reinforced) tools and they survive ~2m (6 feet) drop tests. Laptops won't do that as their screens would crash. Here: a popular video[0] of some massive abuse of a multimeter. Again, a good plastic with glass or carbon fiber reinforcement would have similar properties to al-mg body, yet feel cheap as most people consider all plastics quite the same. For example: polycarbonate, 30% carbon fiber would have tensile strength of 150MPa (which the same to cast aluminum) [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlA7-fh5nDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlA7-fh5nDQ
        OJFord 5y ago
        No, neither would I. I was agreeing with the commenter you replied to, that I'd expect a plastic laptop to crack, and a metal one to dent. If it has to be damaged, I'd prefer the dent. You said above that that was more to do with 'top finish' than 'material'; that's what I was responding to - how would you finish crackable plastic material to make it dent like aluminium/alloy instead.
- 3np 5y ago
  Only "objectively" by your priorities. The fact that metal heats up your legs is also a benefit (e.g. better heat transmission = better performance and component lifetime in the same environment). As someone else noted, "strength" in material is not one-dimensional. Carbon plastic is still way more conducive to cracking, for one. Ergo, there is no "objectively better" choice between metal/plastic/carbon in the general case, it comes down to preferences, priorities and requirements.
YetAnotherNick 5y ago
Now, report the battery life of that after an year of use
kitsunesoba 5y ago
Just an anecdote, but I know someone who had an Ideapad gaming model and while it seemed solid brand new, a year or so in it started falling apart and by year two it was looking ragged just from normal usage, mostly at home on a desk or a lap (so no wear from travel or being knocked around in a bag). The issue seems to be less with structural design and particular choice of plastics that cause them to not hold up to wear.
- 3np 5y ago
  On the flip side of this, I have an old 710S and apart from the now completely unusable micro-HDMI port it's held up really well throughout use and abuse over the years. Battery life holds up as well. If only it had a less brittle video-out and TB it would be close to perfect even today, but these to otherwise minor factors unfortunately make it close to useless apart from as a spare travel device.

luke2m 5y ago

They have gotten a lot better recently in my experience.

zumu 5y ago

> The thinkpads (at least the X,T and P models) tend to be a different story but even that is changing in recent years Maybe relative to Thinkpads of yesteryear, but in comparison to the field of professional laptops, they are still best in class.

m00x 5y ago
I bought a consumer-grade Lenovo (Flex 15") for about $1200 CAD. While it has amazing components like the AMD Ryzen, Radeon GPU, etc. The quality of the rest of the components is trash. The trackpad keeps disconnecting, the screen is very poorly backlit, the speakers sound like headphones that came with 1990 Walkmans. It's not a good laptop even if it looks good on paper.
- zumu 5y ago
  Yea, I've heard mixed things about IdeaPads. My comment was specifically about _Think_Pads. The names are easy to confuse but are very different in build quality.

mark_l_watson 5y ago

I am using a Lenovo Duet Chromebook (has good Linux container support) right now, and it is cheap and has good build quality. It is not particularly fast but it was about $260 including pen and keyboard case.

caymanjim 5y ago

I spent over $2500 on a ThinkPad X1 Extreme three years ago. Died within three months (wouldn't turn on). Lenovo replaced all the innards, but then the 3D video didn't work at all. Had it replaced again. Two full replacements in the first six months. Later, I spilled a drink on the keyboard, and despite their claims of spill-resistant keyboards, it permanently fried eight random keys. By then it was past the warranty period (one year) and Lenovo was unwilling to service it at all. I was ready to pay, but it's not even an option. They told me I had to go through a third party. Couldn't even get any supposed "authorized repair center" to respond to my requests for estimates. A few months later, the video started going, and now it locks up a few minutes after booting. I get that shit happens and sometimes products have defects. I'm willing to put up with a reasonable amount of annoyance. I'll never buy another Lenovo product, though, because once you're out of warranty, you may as well throw the thing away. They don't care at all.