5 ms·

New Zealand's (as you describe it) "extreme lockdown" has worked. When dealing with a pandemic you are supposed to limit potential exposure, and their actions

New Zealand's (as you describe it) "extreme lockdown" has worked. When dealing with a pandemic you are supposed to limit potential exposure, and their actions did that. As a result NZ has had one of the lowest infection rates in the world. Also, those actions let them "return to normal" quicker then anywhere else. It worked. Perhaps you feel that the mid-evil practice of nailing the doors and windows shut and posting a guard outside of a quarantine house, would be more reasonable? Pray that the village stays safe while the sick were imprisoned? People were inconvenienced. Nothing more.

j8hn 5y ago
The child poverty rate increased by 10%. I would say that an increase of children living in inhumane conditions is more than an inconvenience.
- catsncomputers 5y ago
  I can't seem to find anything to verify your 10% claim - all I can find is stats showing that child poverty actually went down.. Are you able to post a source for that? EDIT: since my account has been rate-limited... The msn article below was released before the stats and is purely speculation. The stats before covid already indicate an increase, and NZ has long had fluctuating child poverty rates, which the current government is attempting to address. However it is essential to realise that this increase is largely driven by the effects of the previous government, and the housing and rental market - not the effects of Covid-19. https://www.cpag.org.nz/the-latest/current-statistics/latest-child-poverty-figures/ https://www.cpag.org.nz/the-latest/current-statistics/latest...
  - j8hn 5y ago
    I've seen it mentioned in the past. Here is an article I was able to dig up. https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/number-of-children-in-poverty-rapidly-grew-in-first-year-of-covid-19-due-to-govt-neglect-report/ar-AAMzOpP https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/number-of-children-i...
  - duduri2j 5y ago
    Claims to have found the opposite online while providing no sources, this is just an activist comment.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - j8hn 5y ago
    Here is the report from July 26, 2021. https://www.cpag.org.nz/news/?m=202107 https://www.cpag.org.nz/news/?m=202107 "An additional 18,000 children were probably pushed into poverty in the 12 months to March 2021, even without taking rising housing costs into account, according to new modelling in the report, entitled The first year of Covid-19: Initial outcomes of our collective care for low-income children in Aotearoa New Zealand" "This increase in child poverty of around 10% comes at a time when property owners have seen their wealth rise at an accelerated rate," said McAllister. "Loss of income related to job loss was probably inevitable for many families; but loss of income to the point of inadequacy - or further inadequacy - was due to political decision-making. "The Government avoided one massive health and economic crisis but it enabled another one - that of poverty, homelessness and inequality - to grow rapidly."
WalterBright 5y ago
If it's true that Covid is not going away, but will be endemic, it'll sweep through New Zealand one way or another.
- gballan 5y ago
  Indeed, but timing is key: whether the sweep is before or after the population is substantially vaccinated.
ManBlanket 5y ago
How about averting the easily exploited, "no cost is too great" mentality entirely? If the cost is a disease which kills people smack-dab on the average human lifespan, 99% of which already had a significant confounding disease. We live on an overpopulated planet amidst global ecological collapse. Nobody seems to care about the millions, mostly children under 5, dying of respiratory illnesses caused by pollution or crippled for their entire lives from malaria. Nobody seems to care that deaths from child abuse have sky-rocketed to unprecedented levels in the last year. Yet here we are grieving death in nursing homes, where people go to die. Covid is barely a blip in a long succession of diseases. Letting it do as much damage as possible is the best thing that could have happened to the survivors. Especially since for all that door-nailing, mask-wearing, and aggressive signage all we managed to do was spread a pandemic of emotional toxicity, so long as you weren't from a small isolated island. But hey, I guess we got some good drama and a reason to shame our friends and neighbors out of it.
- swader999 5y ago
  Covid is somewhat better than driving in terms of risk to our younger generations and roughly on par with risk to our older and yet we go full stop for it.
  - rangitatanz 5y ago
    "better" in that it's less risky to have covid than to drive? Might need a reference on that claim. My quick googling only thing I found a comparison to doing bomber runs over nazi Germany during ww2 for older generations.
simplify 5y ago
Can you explain how people were only "inconvenienced"? Is everyone in New Zealand a white collar worker? I don't know anything about it, I take it you live there?
- verve_rat 5y ago
  They are not dead. Sure, for people that can't work from home it has been harder. But Government support has been set at a level well above the unemployment benefit. That is paid to employers to pass on to staff so the employment relationship is continued with strong encouragement to pay at least 80% of the employees normally wages. While it has been hard for some it hasn't been impossible. There have been no reports of abnormal bankruptcy levels (business or personal) or mortgagee sales. Some people have used the fact that the support is higher than the unemployment benefit as evidence that benefits are set too low. In fact, some lower paid workers look forward to a lockdown as a 'covid holiday'. That has pissed a few people off. But all of that is way, way better than asking why are thousands of Kiwis dead? Did my [Nan|Mum|Brother|best friend|insert other person you care about] really need to die, 'for the economy'?
rangitatanz 5y ago
Most of the people upset about the lockdowns seem to be people living outside of New Zealand. Quick search shows that currently 85% of New Zealanders agree with the current lockdown approach. We've seen what it did to Australia by not properly locking down. People are paid a covid support wage subsidy through their business to ensure that they stay being paid.

j8hn 5y ago

The child poverty rate increased by 10%. I would say that an increase of children living in inhumane conditions is more than an inconvenience.

catsncomputers 5y ago
I can't seem to find anything to verify your 10% claim - all I can find is stats showing that child poverty actually went down.. Are you able to post a source for that? EDIT: since my account has been rate-limited... The msn article below was released before the stats and is purely speculation. The stats before covid already indicate an increase, and NZ has long had fluctuating child poverty rates, which the current government is attempting to address. However it is essential to realise that this increase is largely driven by the effects of the previous government, and the housing and rental market - not the effects of Covid-19. https://www.cpag.org.nz/the-latest/current-statistics/latest-child-poverty-figures/ https://www.cpag.org.nz/the-latest/current-statistics/latest...
- j8hn 5y ago
  I've seen it mentioned in the past. Here is an article I was able to dig up. https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/number-of-children-in-poverty-rapidly-grew-in-first-year-of-covid-19-due-to-govt-neglect-report/ar-AAMzOpP https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/number-of-children-i...
- duduri2j 5y ago
  Claims to have found the opposite online while providing no sources, this is just an activist comment.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- j8hn 5y ago
  Here is the report from July 26, 2021. https://www.cpag.org.nz/news/?m=202107 https://www.cpag.org.nz/news/?m=202107 "An additional 18,000 children were probably pushed into poverty in the 12 months to March 2021, even without taking rising housing costs into account, according to new modelling in the report, entitled The first year of Covid-19: Initial outcomes of our collective care for low-income children in Aotearoa New Zealand" "This increase in child poverty of around 10% comes at a time when property owners have seen their wealth rise at an accelerated rate," said McAllister. "Loss of income related to job loss was probably inevitable for many families; but loss of income to the point of inadequacy - or further inadequacy - was due to political decision-making. "The Government avoided one massive health and economic crisis but it enabled another one - that of poverty, homelessness and inequality - to grow rapidly."

WalterBright 5y ago

If it's true that Covid is not going away, but will be endemic, it'll sweep through New Zealand one way or another.

gballan 5y ago
Indeed, but timing is key: whether the sweep is before or after the population is substantially vaccinated.

ManBlanket 5y ago

How about averting the easily exploited, "no cost is too great" mentality entirely? If the cost is a disease which kills people smack-dab on the average human lifespan, 99% of which already had a significant confounding disease. We live on an overpopulated planet amidst global ecological collapse. Nobody seems to care about the millions, mostly children under 5, dying of respiratory illnesses caused by pollution or crippled for their entire lives from malaria. Nobody seems to care that deaths from child abuse have sky-rocketed to unprecedented levels in the last year. Yet here we are grieving death in nursing homes, where people go to die. Covid is barely a blip in a long succession of diseases. Letting it do as much damage as possible is the best thing that could have happened to the survivors. Especially since for all that door-nailing, mask-wearing, and aggressive signage all we managed to do was spread a pandemic of emotional toxicity, so long as you weren't from a small isolated island. But hey, I guess we got some good drama and a reason to shame our friends and neighbors out of it.

swader999 5y ago
Covid is somewhat better than driving in terms of risk to our younger generations and roughly on par with risk to our older and yet we go full stop for it.
- rangitatanz 5y ago
  "better" in that it's less risky to have covid than to drive? Might need a reference on that claim. My quick googling only thing I found a comparison to doing bomber runs over nazi Germany during ww2 for older generations.

simplify 5y ago

Can you explain how people were only "inconvenienced"? Is everyone in New Zealand a white collar worker? I don't know anything about it, I take it you live there?

verve_rat 5y ago
They are not dead. Sure, for people that can't work from home it has been harder. But Government support has been set at a level well above the unemployment benefit. That is paid to employers to pass on to staff so the employment relationship is continued with strong encouragement to pay at least 80% of the employees normally wages. While it has been hard for some it hasn't been impossible. There have been no reports of abnormal bankruptcy levels (business or personal) or mortgagee sales. Some people have used the fact that the support is higher than the unemployment benefit as evidence that benefits are set too low. In fact, some lower paid workers look forward to a lockdown as a 'covid holiday'. That has pissed a few people off. But all of that is way, way better than asking why are thousands of Kiwis dead? Did my [Nan|Mum|Brother|best friend|insert other person you care about] really need to die, 'for the economy'?

rangitatanz 5y ago

Most of the people upset about the lockdowns seem to be people living outside of New Zealand. Quick search shows that currently 85% of New Zealanders agree with the current lockdown approach. We've seen what it did to Australia by not properly locking down. People are paid a covid support wage subsidy through their business to ensure that they stay being paid.