5 ms·

Federal court to order film service Zediva shut down

40 points by nextparadigms 15y ago

onemoreact 15y ago
That sounds exactly like an idea I had for a video rental service. I was thinking of having a virtual DVD drive connected to remote DVD's and renting things out for 48 hour time periods. Granted, I assumed you would be sued but I am currious why they lost. After looking into it you would either be making copy's of the content or have DMCA issues but this seems to come down to public preforamance issues. Edit: On second thought http://laboratorium.net/archive/2011/03/16/that_zediva_thing_its_so_not_going_to_work http://laboratorium.net/archive/2011/03/16/that_zediva_thing... suggests that http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=6496522323472709052 http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=6496522323472709... is probably a limitation.
davidu 15y ago
This can't be surprising to anyone. Trying to use technicalities to skirt the law rarely works out with any meaningful success.
- larrik 15y ago
  Nonsense! Technicalities to skirt the law are very common, just not where copyright is involved. Because copyright is special. Really.
- jamesteow 15y ago
  "Trying to use technicalities to skirt the law rarely works out with any meaningful success." Sarcasm, correct?
  - pyre 15y ago
    Movie studios are involved, yes. E.g. they are well known for their accounting/legal maneuvers to try and avoid paying people a percentage of movie profits by claiming that the movie didn't turn a profit, even if it is one of the highest grossing films in history (i.e. Stan Lee and Spiderman).
username3 15y ago
Zediva's argument that the service isn't really transmitting copyrighted movies over the Internet but is more akin to one person lending a physical DVD to another--just using the Web to accomplish that task--was rejected by Walter. "The Zediva service transmits performances of Plaintiffs' copyrighted works 'directly under the language of the statute,' Walter wrote. Sounds like Slingbox and music lockers.
- VladRussian 15y ago
  i'm wondering what would be the outcome when/if the Internet was used for teleportation of DVD disks - would it constitute "public performance" or completely legal Netflix DVD-by-mail type service with USPS replaced by teleportation?
ig1 15y ago
Isn't this the same argument that mp3.com used ?
- pyre 15y ago
  This is taken to an extreme though. I doubt that mp3.com had a physical stereo for each person trying to play music on the site.
js2 15y ago
From David Pogues' review[1,2] from earlier this year: Yes, America may swamp Zediva’s big rack of DVD players, and yes, the M.P.A.A. may squash it as it has squashed hundreds of movie-downloading college students. Until then, fellow movie buffs, let us celebrate a brave step forward into the new age of compromise-free streaming movies. Too bad it was the M.P.A.A. that doomed it and not being overrun by America. :-( [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/technology/personaltech/17pogue.html http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/technology/personaltech/17... [2] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2334332 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2334332 "Judge Walter's decision is a great victory for the more than 2 million American men and women whose livelihoods depend on a thriving film and television industry," the MPAA said in a statement. "Gag me with a spoon" as they used to say…
larsen161 15y ago
If Zediva really has a DVD and player for each film they are showing at any given time then it is exactly like a DVD rental service via mail. If there's 10 people watching a film right now and they only have 10 discs, me being the 11th person would not be able to stream that movie until someone else finishes (returns) one of those 10. Netflix is a streaming service where they have a 'single' copy of a film that they can stream to an 'unlimited' number of people at any given time.
teyc 15y ago
In Australia, the telco Optus is offering a PVR service, to record free to air movies and play it back over wireless. The media companies are starting to scream copyright as well. I couldn't help thinking that the law isn't very well placed to handle the digitalisation of information. For instance, fashion design is not copyrightable, but a business method is. What if you had an algorithm that generates a fashion, then which law gets precedence?

40 points by nextparadigms 15y ago

That sounds exactly like an idea I had for a video rental service. I was thinking of having a virtual DVD drive connected to remote DVD's and renting things out for 48 hour time periods. Granted, I assumed you would be sued but I am currious why they lost. After looking into it you would either be making copy's of the content or have DMCA issues but this seems to come down to public preforamance issues. Edit: On second thought http://laboratorium.net/archive/2011/03/16/that_zediva_thing_its_so_not_going_to_work http://laboratorium.net/archive/2011/03/16/that_zediva_thing... suggests that http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=6496522323472709052 http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=6496522323472709... is probably a limitation.

davidu 15y ago

This can't be surprising to anyone. Trying to use technicalities to skirt the law rarely works out with any meaningful success.

larrik 15y ago
Nonsense! Technicalities to skirt the law are very common, just not where copyright is involved. Because copyright is special. Really.
jamesteow 15y ago
"Trying to use technicalities to skirt the law rarely works out with any meaningful success." Sarcasm, correct?
- pyre 15y ago
  Movie studios are involved, yes. E.g. they are well known for their accounting/legal maneuvers to try and avoid paying people a percentage of movie profits by claiming that the movie didn't turn a profit, even if it is one of the highest grossing films in history (i.e. Stan Lee and Spiderman).

username3 15y ago

Zediva's argument that the service isn't really transmitting copyrighted movies over the Internet but is more akin to one person lending a physical DVD to another--just using the Web to accomplish that task--was rejected by Walter. "The Zediva service transmits performances of Plaintiffs' copyrighted works 'directly under the language of the statute,' Walter wrote. Sounds like Slingbox and music lockers.

VladRussian 15y ago
i'm wondering what would be the outcome when/if the Internet was used for teleportation of DVD disks - would it constitute "public performance" or completely legal Netflix DVD-by-mail type service with USPS replaced by teleportation?

ig1 15y ago

Isn't this the same argument that mp3.com used ?

pyre 15y ago
This is taken to an extreme though. I doubt that mp3.com had a physical stereo for each person trying to play music on the site.

js2 15y ago

From David Pogues' review[1,2] from earlier this year: Yes, America may swamp Zediva’s big rack of DVD players, and yes, the M.P.A.A. may squash it as it has squashed hundreds of movie-downloading college students. Until then, fellow movie buffs, let us celebrate a brave step forward into the new age of compromise-free streaming movies. Too bad it was the M.P.A.A. that doomed it and not being overrun by America. :-( [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/technology/personaltech/17pogue.html http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/technology/personaltech/17... [2] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2334332 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2334332 "Judge Walter's decision is a great victory for the more than 2 million American men and women whose livelihoods depend on a thriving film and television industry," the MPAA said in a statement. "Gag me with a spoon" as they used to say…

larsen161 15y ago

If Zediva really has a DVD and player for each film they are showing at any given time then it is exactly like a DVD rental service via mail. If there's 10 people watching a film right now and they only have 10 discs, me being the 11th person would not be able to stream that movie until someone else finishes (returns) one of those 10. Netflix is a streaming service where they have a 'single' copy of a film that they can stream to an 'unlimited' number of people at any given time.

teyc 15y ago

In Australia, the telco Optus is offering a PVR service, to record free to air movies and play it back over wireless. The media companies are starting to scream copyright as well. I couldn't help thinking that the law isn't very well placed to handle the digitalisation of information. For instance, fashion design is not copyrightable, but a business method is. What if you had an algorithm that generates a fashion, then which law gets precedence?