5 ms·

The premise is somewhat flawed. We _can_ recognize different sounds. Almost anybody can say "That was a violin" or "That was a female voice" or "That was a guit

The premise is somewhat flawed. We _can_ recognize different sounds. Almost anybody can say "That was a violin" or "That was a female voice" or "That was a guitar" with basic training. Being able to determine exact pitch is more like being able to determine exact rgb values of a color. What is interesting about this study is that Perfect Pitch folks still only have 77% accuracy with pure sine waves. Compared to 98% accuracy with full-timbre piano notes. I have to wonder if this is just a matter of practice and exposure or if there is something deeper there.

Grustaf 5y ago
> Almost anybody can say "That was a violin" or "That was a female voice" or "That was a guitar" with basic training. That's about timbre, not pitch.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  What is known as timbre is technically the degree to which certain harmonics are present or not. The most interesting case of this is the missing fundamental, which we apparently re-create in our heads to hear it even when it isn't really present! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_fundamental https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_fundamental This really threw my for a loop while building my mp3->midi convertor.
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    I know what timbre is, that's my point. The difference between a violin and a piano is not about frequency.
    - ogma 5y ago
      And their point is that timbre is determined by the intensity of the overtones, which are frequencies.
- srcreigh 5y ago
  That's my point. I believe red vs blue is more like violin vs voice than A440 vs Exyz.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    But it isn't. To make it a bit more specific: Red vs Blue is ~700 nm vs ~475 nm (about because they are ranges rather than specific frequencies where most people who are not vision impaired will agree something is either red or blue). Violin vs voice is more like 'triangular wave form with f, 2f, 3f, 4f, etc as the harmonics and voice would be 'mostly sinusoidal waveform with a bunch of vocal 'chords' acting as strings each of them with a sligthly different base pitch, with those same harmonics. But if you were to compare for instance to a reed instrument the harmonics would look completely different. Some singers by the way are capable of controlling their vocal chords in such a way that they can create rising and falling pitches at the same time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC9Qh709gas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC9Qh709gas
    - srcreigh 5y ago
      Although I concede and agree with you on a basic level that base frequency is more like color than timbre, there are some other interesting factors. One. Almost all instruments have different timbre depending on the pitch. At least at large scales, your voice's deepest note does not have the same timbre as your midrange, or your highest note. Similarly with pianos. I wonder if this is also true on a micro level between A and B on a piano? Two. As I mentioned above, perfect pitch folks _don't recognize sine waves as well as piano notes_. Why? That's very curious. In any case, I was also going to mention that musical notes are interesting because they loop. A is 440Hz and 880Hz. I was expecting to find something like 2x blue frequency = yellow, which would highlight a difference between color and sound. However, interestingly, that is not the case. The entire visible spectrum of light is within one "octave" of frequency. Fascinating... :)
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        Yes, it is fascinating, highly recommended book about sound: "The Acoustical Foundations of Music" by John Backus.

Grustaf 5y ago

> Almost anybody can say "That was a violin" or "That was a female voice" or "That was a guitar" with basic training. That's about timbre, not pitch.

jacquesm 5y ago
What is known as timbre is technically the degree to which certain harmonics are present or not. The most interesting case of this is the missing fundamental, which we apparently re-create in our heads to hear it even when it isn't really present! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_fundamental https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_fundamental This really threw my for a loop while building my mp3->midi convertor.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  I know what timbre is, that's my point. The difference between a violin and a piano is not about frequency.
  - ogma 5y ago
    And their point is that timbre is determined by the intensity of the overtones, which are frequencies.
srcreigh 5y ago
That's my point. I believe red vs blue is more like violin vs voice than A440 vs Exyz.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  But it isn't. To make it a bit more specific: Red vs Blue is ~700 nm vs ~475 nm (about because they are ranges rather than specific frequencies where most people who are not vision impaired will agree something is either red or blue). Violin vs voice is more like 'triangular wave form with f, 2f, 3f, 4f, etc as the harmonics and voice would be 'mostly sinusoidal waveform with a bunch of vocal 'chords' acting as strings each of them with a sligthly different base pitch, with those same harmonics. But if you were to compare for instance to a reed instrument the harmonics would look completely different. Some singers by the way are capable of controlling their vocal chords in such a way that they can create rising and falling pitches at the same time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC9Qh709gas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC9Qh709gas
  - srcreigh 5y ago
    Although I concede and agree with you on a basic level that base frequency is more like color than timbre, there are some other interesting factors. One. Almost all instruments have different timbre depending on the pitch. At least at large scales, your voice's deepest note does not have the same timbre as your midrange, or your highest note. Similarly with pianos. I wonder if this is also true on a micro level between A and B on a piano? Two. As I mentioned above, perfect pitch folks _don't recognize sine waves as well as piano notes_. Why? That's very curious. In any case, I was also going to mention that musical notes are interesting because they loop. A is 440Hz and 880Hz. I was expecting to find something like 2x blue frequency = yellow, which would highlight a difference between color and sound. However, interestingly, that is not the case. The entire visible spectrum of light is within one "octave" of frequency. Fascinating... :)
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Yes, it is fascinating, highly recommended book about sound: "The Acoustical Foundations of Music" by John Backus.