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Is it wrong? Look at things like radical feminism or men going their own way, seems like decent sections of both genders are starting to outright hate and swear

Is it wrong? Look at things like radical feminism or men going their own way, seems like decent sections of both genders are starting to outright hate and swear off of each other even when they are heterosexual. And it's undeniable that any child born today will have to contend with all seeing techno spying governments with automated drone armies and live through whatever climate change has in store for the next 100 years. Just sea level change alone means massive city migrations around the world.

silicon2401 5y ago
This is the kind of thing that made me realize I have no interest in having kids. I don't want them to live in the world as it is today, and even less so the future to come. I'd rather save my resources for myself and my existing loved ones.
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  I'm in awe at how my ancestors managed to survive every war, plague, famine, and natural disaster on Earth. And, that my non human ancestors survived every single mass extinction. I look at the difficulties of my own pleasant life and feel a little ashamed, to be honest. My ancestors managed to survive and reproduce through ALL OF THAT, and I can't because of some social anxiety? It's a little sobering, for me at least.
  - silicon2401 5y ago
    To be fair, it's a complicated issue. Maybe not every single one of your ancestors was suffering; as far as we know maybe you had nobility 3000 years ago who lived like gods. Similarly, perhaps you're living through things that they would find it incredibly difficult to go through. Lastly, to this point > My ancestors managed to survive and reproduce through ALL OF THAT, and I can't The bar is very low. All you know is that your ancestors all lived long enough to reproduce, and then reproduced. It's not difficult to pass that bar today with means that were available back then: alcohol, patience, effort, luck for example (and that even leaves out the darker ways that reproduction happens, which happens more than people like to talk about). If it's something you want (and related to a base instinct like eating and using the bathroom), it's doable. Join a church or other such community and you may even find people going out of their way to help you reproduce.
    - ravenstine 5y ago
      Suffering is also a weird thing. If we were able to ask our distant ancestors whether they were suffering, they would probably give us a blank stare. Perhaps in not all cases, but much of what humans normally had to go through is what a modern human would consider suffering. That's not to say they didn't suffer by our standard, but perhaps they didn't see it that way. Someday future humans may wonder how we made it through all the "suffering" we go through now because of the consequences of technology, but with our frame of reference this is the best of times. It's hard to imagine how our ancestors were able to deal with their turmoil, but that viewpoint only makes sense from a modern one.
- Damogran6 5y ago
  Then your kids won't have a chance to make it better. I'm all for lessening the load of the population on the planet...I see that happening now. But I don't think it means not ever having kids.
cafard 5y ago
The boomers had Vietnam. (The US boomers: but it wasn't great times in Bangladesh, Indonesia, Vietnam, or a bunch of other places.) Their parents had WW II; the grandparents had WW I, the Spanish flu, and Great Depression. I am old and married, but from what I see of the young, the sexes seem to get along pretty well.

silicon2401 5y ago

This is the kind of thing that made me realize I have no interest in having kids. I don't want them to live in the world as it is today, and even less so the future to come. I'd rather save my resources for myself and my existing loved ones.

BitwiseFool 5y ago
I'm in awe at how my ancestors managed to survive every war, plague, famine, and natural disaster on Earth. And, that my non human ancestors survived every single mass extinction. I look at the difficulties of my own pleasant life and feel a little ashamed, to be honest. My ancestors managed to survive and reproduce through ALL OF THAT, and I can't because of some social anxiety? It's a little sobering, for me at least.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  To be fair, it's a complicated issue. Maybe not every single one of your ancestors was suffering; as far as we know maybe you had nobility 3000 years ago who lived like gods. Similarly, perhaps you're living through things that they would find it incredibly difficult to go through. Lastly, to this point > My ancestors managed to survive and reproduce through ALL OF THAT, and I can't The bar is very low. All you know is that your ancestors all lived long enough to reproduce, and then reproduced. It's not difficult to pass that bar today with means that were available back then: alcohol, patience, effort, luck for example (and that even leaves out the darker ways that reproduction happens, which happens more than people like to talk about). If it's something you want (and related to a base instinct like eating and using the bathroom), it's doable. Join a church or other such community and you may even find people going out of their way to help you reproduce.
  - ravenstine 5y ago
    Suffering is also a weird thing. If we were able to ask our distant ancestors whether they were suffering, they would probably give us a blank stare. Perhaps in not all cases, but much of what humans normally had to go through is what a modern human would consider suffering. That's not to say they didn't suffer by our standard, but perhaps they didn't see it that way. Someday future humans may wonder how we made it through all the "suffering" we go through now because of the consequences of technology, but with our frame of reference this is the best of times. It's hard to imagine how our ancestors were able to deal with their turmoil, but that viewpoint only makes sense from a modern one.
Damogran6 5y ago
Then your kids won't have a chance to make it better. I'm all for lessening the load of the population on the planet...I see that happening now. But I don't think it means not ever having kids.

cafard 5y ago

The boomers had Vietnam. (The US boomers: but it wasn't great times in Bangladesh, Indonesia, Vietnam, or a bunch of other places.) Their parents had WW II; the grandparents had WW I, the Spanish flu, and Great Depression. I am old and married, but from what I see of the young, the sexes seem to get along pretty well.