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Sometimes I try to imagine what the app store rules would look like if apple had to abide by those same rules for all of their own apps. I imagine the rules wou

by Joeri 5y ago

Sometimes I try to imagine what the app store rules would look like if apple had to abide by those same rules for all of their own apps. I imagine the rules would be much more lenient, app review a lot less error prone, and developers would be chafed far less by those golden handcuffs. Pretty sure apple’s developer documentation would still be bad though.

haswell 5y ago
I work on a platform that provides its subscribers with a store for 1st and 3rd party apps/solutions built on that platform. Every app delivered on this store must go through the same review process whether it's internally built or not. This has led to healthy innovation on the app store and deep empathy for the 3rd party developer. To be fair, it is possible to ship components that are part of the core platform outside of this mechanism, but I think just having one subset of internal development go through the same review/approval channels as 3rd party apps has been very positive for our developer community. I'd love to see the same thing here.
- novok 5y ago
  So what is the platform?
  - kernoble 5y ago
    If I had to guess it would be something like Slack, Shopify, Squarespace or some other SaaS platform that needs to meet the needs of a hugely diverse customer base.
    - haswell 5y ago
      I’d prefer not to name the specific platform to maintain anonymity, but you’re in the right ballpark.
  - frutiger 5y ago
    Somewhat obvious if you check their submission history.
- vlovich123 5y ago
  Do you run 1p and 3p code in the same environment? That’s frequently the challenge mobile operators run into - the OS needs privileged access to location services (eg 911) that it can’t grant untrusted code.
  - dannyw 5y ago
    OP isn't saying the OS goes through the same review processes, but (some) 1p apps do. For example, Apple Music should not have privileged access to location services - it should be using the exact same location APIs and permissions as 3p apps.
    - vlovich123 5y ago
      All Apple apps go through review & many have the same requirements/restrictions as 3p apps. I read OPs statement more forcefully than you may have: > Every app delivered on this store must go through the same review process whether it's internally built or not Believe it or not, but internal Apps go through an even more stringent review as they have Apple branding. The exception is they're allowed various privileges that wouldn't be appropriate for 3p apps (security or even that a framework isn't quite ready for prime time & needs some bake time with internal users for whom back compat isn't a concern).
  - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
    > That’s frequently the challenge mobile operators run into - the OS needs privileged access to location services (eg 911) that it can’t grant untrusted code. It doesn't actually need this. The phone app can just ask for permission to access your location, which you would then give it when you call 911 because you want the emergency responders to know where you are. Anyone who really wants to can already deny the phone their location by using a Faraday cage with a WiFi access point in it so the phone has internet but no GPS or cellular triangulation. You can't prevent it by not allowing the user to deny the permission. There is no excuse for special permissions.
    - throwaways885 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mdoms 5y ago
I agree, Apple should be broken up.
- haswell 5y ago
  It's not necessary to break Apple up to implement a policy that requires Apple to apply the same process to their own apps. There are other standalone arguments calling for a breakup, but agreeing with the parent doesn't automatically lead to the conclusion that a breakup is required.
  - wolpoli 5y ago
    > It's not necessary to break Apple up to implement a policy that requires Apple to apply the same process to their own apps. It works in theory, but when the application team and review team both report to the same CEO, the review team will be pressured to bend the review policy.
    - wins32767 5y ago
      And if it's have the policy or be broken up the CEO will be pressured to not let them bend it...
      - CydeWeys 5y ago
        The stick only works if you actually get the stick if it's merited, though. So it could easily end up actually being broken up under your proposal.
        wins32767 5y ago
        Not really. The risk to a CEO of having to deal with an angry government is waaaaaay more than the benefit from internal teams not having to deal with a bad process.
    - haswell 5y ago
      Internal pressure is a fair concern, but is not a foregone conclusion. If anything, unfair approvals of Apple-developed apps would enrage the developer community and shine even more light on the issue.
blago 5y ago
Ban Apple from using internal APIs? I like that.

by Joeri 5y ago

haswell 5y ago

I work on a platform that provides its subscribers with a store for 1st and 3rd party apps/solutions built on that platform. Every app delivered on this store must go through the same review process whether it's internally built or not. This has led to healthy innovation on the app store and deep empathy for the 3rd party developer. To be fair, it is possible to ship components that are part of the core platform outside of this mechanism, but I think just having one subset of internal development go through the same review/approval channels as 3rd party apps has been very positive for our developer community. I'd love to see the same thing here.

novok 5y ago
So what is the platform?
- kernoble 5y ago
  If I had to guess it would be something like Slack, Shopify, Squarespace or some other SaaS platform that needs to meet the needs of a hugely diverse customer base.
  - haswell 5y ago
    I’d prefer not to name the specific platform to maintain anonymity, but you’re in the right ballpark.
- frutiger 5y ago
  Somewhat obvious if you check their submission history.
vlovich123 5y ago
Do you run 1p and 3p code in the same environment? That’s frequently the challenge mobile operators run into - the OS needs privileged access to location services (eg 911) that it can’t grant untrusted code.
- dannyw 5y ago
  OP isn't saying the OS goes through the same review processes, but (some) 1p apps do. For example, Apple Music should not have privileged access to location services - it should be using the exact same location APIs and permissions as 3p apps.
  - vlovich123 5y ago
    All Apple apps go through review & many have the same requirements/restrictions as 3p apps. I read OPs statement more forcefully than you may have: > Every app delivered on this store must go through the same review process whether it's internally built or not Believe it or not, but internal Apps go through an even more stringent review as they have Apple branding. The exception is they're allowed various privileges that wouldn't be appropriate for 3p apps (security or even that a framework isn't quite ready for prime time & needs some bake time with internal users for whom back compat isn't a concern).
- AnthonyMouse 5y ago
  > That’s frequently the challenge mobile operators run into - the OS needs privileged access to location services (eg 911) that it can’t grant untrusted code. It doesn't actually need this. The phone app can just ask for permission to access your location, which you would then give it when you call 911 because you want the emergency responders to know where you are. Anyone who really wants to can already deny the phone their location by using a Faraday cage with a WiFi access point in it so the phone has internet but no GPS or cellular triangulation. You can't prevent it by not allowing the user to deny the permission. There is no excuse for special permissions.
  - throwaways885 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

mdoms 5y ago

I agree, Apple should be broken up.

haswell 5y ago
It's not necessary to break Apple up to implement a policy that requires Apple to apply the same process to their own apps. There are other standalone arguments calling for a breakup, but agreeing with the parent doesn't automatically lead to the conclusion that a breakup is required.
- wolpoli 5y ago
  > It's not necessary to break Apple up to implement a policy that requires Apple to apply the same process to their own apps. It works in theory, but when the application team and review team both report to the same CEO, the review team will be pressured to bend the review policy.
  - wins32767 5y ago
    And if it's have the policy or be broken up the CEO will be pressured to not let them bend it...
    - CydeWeys 5y ago
      The stick only works if you actually get the stick if it's merited, though. So it could easily end up actually being broken up under your proposal.
      - wins32767 5y ago
        Not really. The risk to a CEO of having to deal with an angry government is waaaaaay more than the benefit from internal teams not having to deal with a bad process.
  - haswell 5y ago
    Internal pressure is a fair concern, but is not a foregone conclusion. If anything, unfair approvals of Apple-developed apps would enrage the developer community and shine even more light on the issue.

blago 5y ago

Ban Apple from using internal APIs? I like that.