5 ms·

Modernity, although it would have also shaped your personality. Nevertheless, in the time and place I live, I doubt that my male ancestors would have done any

Modernity, although it would have also shaped your personality. Nevertheless, in the time and place I live, I doubt that my male ancestors would have done any better in my place. Narcissism and self-centeredness are so normalized that the kind of man I am doesn't really belong. I think there are many men and women like I am who simply aren't attracted to the opposite sex in the form that they tend to take in modern civilization. I was just recently talking to a female relative of mine who has a similar perspective. People are also less visually attractive in general. I've been at the beach a few times recently, crowded ones, and I noticed that there were virtually no attractive, beautiful, or sexy people like I remember. My standards are not extraordinarily high, btw. Over half of people were overweight or obese and the minority that were even close to being in shape weren't wearing anything particularly flattering. By the way, this is in California, not the middle of nowhere. I've met foreigners who believe that Los Angeles is full of hot people, and that was somewhat true at one point. Now, I'm not so sure. Believe me, I appreciate body diversity, but everyone being fat and slovenly (i.e. unhealthy) isn't diversity or a positive thing. Anyway, I think that people are just less attracted to each other in general. They've either abused their bodies to the point where they look a decade or more older than they should or they just dress like slobs. Or they dress in ways that signal that they aren't interested in any sort of serious relationship. There's also just the general perception of globalized craziness. On top of not being appealed by emotionally immature partners (with no useful skills), why would I want to bring a child into a world where their way of life is going to radically shift several times in their lifetime? Why would I want anyone to live under technological tyranny? Or the consequences of humans abusing the environment? People point to the "mouse utopia" experiment, but I don't think it's that. Technological inertia is what is bringing us to this point. Besides a little bit of HN and the occasional episode of 80's TV, I've pretty much disconnected from it all, and more people I know are disengaging. It's both a good sign and a bad one. If people are disengaging, that doesn't really mean that society itself is correcting itself. We're wincing at the wall we are about to crash through.

stagger87 5y ago
> Narcissism and self-centeredness are so normalized that the kind of man I am doesn't really belong. I think there are many men and women like I am who simply aren't attracted to the opposite sex in the form that they tend to take in modern civilization. > On top of not being appealed by emotionally immature partners (with no useful skills), why would I want to bring a child into a world where their way of life is going to radically shift several times in their lifetime? Consider therapy. Outside of your angsty high school years, these sort of thoughts are not healthy. Unless you're purposely going out of your way to inspire melancholy, you sound depressed.
- hellothere1337 5y ago
  Nice way of gaslighting him into thinking he's insane
  - bm-rf 5y ago
    You don't need to be insane to go to therapy.
    - hellothere1337 5y ago
      People dont need to go into therapy if they dont agree with your worldview.
- thatguy0900 5y ago
  Is it wrong? Look at things like radical feminism or men going their own way, seems like decent sections of both genders are starting to outright hate and swear off of each other even when they are heterosexual. And it's undeniable that any child born today will have to contend with all seeing techno spying governments with automated drone armies and live through whatever climate change has in store for the next 100 years. Just sea level change alone means massive city migrations around the world.
  - silicon2401 5y ago
    This is the kind of thing that made me realize I have no interest in having kids. I don't want them to live in the world as it is today, and even less so the future to come. I'd rather save my resources for myself and my existing loved ones.
    - BitwiseFool 5y ago
      I'm in awe at how my ancestors managed to survive every war, plague, famine, and natural disaster on Earth. And, that my non human ancestors survived every single mass extinction. I look at the difficulties of my own pleasant life and feel a little ashamed, to be honest. My ancestors managed to survive and reproduce through ALL OF THAT, and I can't because of some social anxiety? It's a little sobering, for me at least.
dwaltrip 5y ago
I live in LA and, in my opinion, there are plenty of attractive people around. The other reply didn’t say it well, but they might have been onto something when they suggested you might be (understandably) depressed. I have dealt with depression and some of the ideas in your comment remind me of certain bleak perspectives I have had at various moments. I also remember having plenty of clever intellectual rationalizations for these feelings. It’s pretty crazy when your mood shifts and you are looking at the exact same situation and no longer feel the negative assessment of it. I’ve had lots of ups and downs as I learned to deal with difficult emotions and pain that apparently were hidden within me. Edit: Of course, it is just an idea. I don’t know you or your situation. You might not be depressed at all :) It’s objectively true that there are more obese people nowadays, however I don’t think it is helpful to focus on that fact.
- ravenstine 5y ago
  I appreciate your empathy, and will think about what you have said. I'd rather not comment extensively on it since thoughts that may stem from a depressed mind are more easily dismissed than those from an overly happy and optimistic one. As much as I do appreciate yours and others' thoughts on my mental state, I'm not sure I should entertain it or even justify myself for that reason. > I live in LA and, in my opinion, there are plenty of attractive people around. It depends quite a bit on the neighborhood. You'll see more people on the Westside who are magazine material than say the Van Nuys. I still stand by my subjective experience that there has been an overall reduction in general attractiveness, but I'm totally open to counter-evidence. (yes, I mean men and women, and in ways that were at least once somewhat agreed upon) > It’s objectively true that there are more obese people, however I don’t think it is helpful to focus on that fact. Why? To discount that variable doesn't make sense to me. I used to be in the obese category and I've known other people who are or were. The way the public treats the obese and the skinny is like night and day. If the obesity rate continues to climb, that sure seems like something that would help the population. Beyond attractiveness, the obese are more at risk for having trouble conceiving.
  - eric-hu 5y ago
    > > It’s objectively true that there are more obese people, however I don’t think it is helpful to focus on that fact. > Why? To discount that variable doesn't make sense to me. You remind me of myself. Your observations remind me of what my natural observations tend to be. I’m originally from LA and think I’d agree with what you’ve written above. With that said, here’s a defense of the GP willfully ignoring data in this case (and possibly in general). It’s attractive to be positive. Not just to romantic partners, but to friends, coworkers, managers, reportees, strangers, etc. I think it’s fine to have standards for physical attractiveness, but they should be in line with what you can achieve. Similarly, I think positivity is attractive and negativity not so much, though I naturally think critically. Over time I’ve learned that others perceive me as a negative person. So erring on the side of positive might mean ignoring data. It might mean being blind to trends, but if it also means being happier, it’s how I would prefer to live.
aixi 5y ago
I don't really think your experience applies to most people. I don't know if it's your situation but perhaps you could consider reducing your pornography intake.
- ravenstine 5y ago
  That's valid, although I don't believe I claimed that it applies to most people. Something can be relatively common and have a significant effect without meaning that a majority would be subject to it. I don't appreciate your suggestion, though. Even though you i-don't-know-if-but it, what you say suggests that my viewpoint comes from a dark place of loneliness and pornography intake, which I don't think is fair unless you substantiate that somehow.
  - aixi 5y ago
    Oh, I didn't mean it that way at all, and I'm sorry I made you feel attacked --- what I mean is that I feel that pornography consumption in excess (or even in general, sometimes) can sometimes warp our sense of what is attractive or not.
    - ravenstine 5y ago
      No worries. Yes, it totally can twist what attractiveness means to someone.

stagger87 5y ago

> Narcissism and self-centeredness are so normalized that the kind of man I am doesn't really belong. I think there are many men and women like I am who simply aren't attracted to the opposite sex in the form that they tend to take in modern civilization. > On top of not being appealed by emotionally immature partners (with no useful skills), why would I want to bring a child into a world where their way of life is going to radically shift several times in their lifetime? Consider therapy. Outside of your angsty high school years, these sort of thoughts are not healthy. Unless you're purposely going out of your way to inspire melancholy, you sound depressed.

hellothere1337 5y ago
Nice way of gaslighting him into thinking he's insane
- bm-rf 5y ago
  You don't need to be insane to go to therapy.
  - hellothere1337 5y ago
    People dont need to go into therapy if they dont agree with your worldview.
thatguy0900 5y ago
Is it wrong? Look at things like radical feminism or men going their own way, seems like decent sections of both genders are starting to outright hate and swear off of each other even when they are heterosexual. And it's undeniable that any child born today will have to contend with all seeing techno spying governments with automated drone armies and live through whatever climate change has in store for the next 100 years. Just sea level change alone means massive city migrations around the world.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  This is the kind of thing that made me realize I have no interest in having kids. I don't want them to live in the world as it is today, and even less so the future to come. I'd rather save my resources for myself and my existing loved ones.
  - BitwiseFool 5y ago
    I'm in awe at how my ancestors managed to survive every war, plague, famine, and natural disaster on Earth. And, that my non human ancestors survived every single mass extinction. I look at the difficulties of my own pleasant life and feel a little ashamed, to be honest. My ancestors managed to survive and reproduce through ALL OF THAT, and I can't because of some social anxiety? It's a little sobering, for me at least.

dwaltrip 5y ago

I live in LA and, in my opinion, there are plenty of attractive people around. The other reply didn’t say it well, but they might have been onto something when they suggested you might be (understandably) depressed. I have dealt with depression and some of the ideas in your comment remind me of certain bleak perspectives I have had at various moments. I also remember having plenty of clever intellectual rationalizations for these feelings. It’s pretty crazy when your mood shifts and you are looking at the exact same situation and no longer feel the negative assessment of it. I’ve had lots of ups and downs as I learned to deal with difficult emotions and pain that apparently were hidden within me. Edit: Of course, it is just an idea. I don’t know you or your situation. You might not be depressed at all :) It’s objectively true that there are more obese people nowadays, however I don’t think it is helpful to focus on that fact.

ravenstine 5y ago
I appreciate your empathy, and will think about what you have said. I'd rather not comment extensively on it since thoughts that may stem from a depressed mind are more easily dismissed than those from an overly happy and optimistic one. As much as I do appreciate yours and others' thoughts on my mental state, I'm not sure I should entertain it or even justify myself for that reason. > I live in LA and, in my opinion, there are plenty of attractive people around. It depends quite a bit on the neighborhood. You'll see more people on the Westside who are magazine material than say the Van Nuys. I still stand by my subjective experience that there has been an overall reduction in general attractiveness, but I'm totally open to counter-evidence. (yes, I mean men and women, and in ways that were at least once somewhat agreed upon) > It’s objectively true that there are more obese people, however I don’t think it is helpful to focus on that fact. Why? To discount that variable doesn't make sense to me. I used to be in the obese category and I've known other people who are or were. The way the public treats the obese and the skinny is like night and day. If the obesity rate continues to climb, that sure seems like something that would help the population. Beyond attractiveness, the obese are more at risk for having trouble conceiving.
- eric-hu 5y ago
  > > It’s objectively true that there are more obese people, however I don’t think it is helpful to focus on that fact. > Why? To discount that variable doesn't make sense to me. You remind me of myself. Your observations remind me of what my natural observations tend to be. I’m originally from LA and think I’d agree with what you’ve written above. With that said, here’s a defense of the GP willfully ignoring data in this case (and possibly in general). It’s attractive to be positive. Not just to romantic partners, but to friends, coworkers, managers, reportees, strangers, etc. I think it’s fine to have standards for physical attractiveness, but they should be in line with what you can achieve. Similarly, I think positivity is attractive and negativity not so much, though I naturally think critically. Over time I’ve learned that others perceive me as a negative person. So erring on the side of positive might mean ignoring data. It might mean being blind to trends, but if it also means being happier, it’s how I would prefer to live.

aixi 5y ago

I don't really think your experience applies to most people. I don't know if it's your situation but perhaps you could consider reducing your pornography intake.

ravenstine 5y ago
That's valid, although I don't believe I claimed that it applies to most people. Something can be relatively common and have a significant effect without meaning that a majority would be subject to it. I don't appreciate your suggestion, though. Even though you i-don't-know-if-but it, what you say suggests that my viewpoint comes from a dark place of loneliness and pornography intake, which I don't think is fair unless you substantiate that somehow.
- aixi 5y ago
  Oh, I didn't mean it that way at all, and I'm sorry I made you feel attacked --- what I mean is that I feel that pornography consumption in excess (or even in general, sometimes) can sometimes warp our sense of what is attractive or not.
  - ravenstine 5y ago
    No worries. Yes, it totally can twist what attractiveness means to someone.