5 ms·

> Windows 11 is optimized for speed >Yet wont run on 4 year old hardware....that's some piss poor optimisations. Of course it will be faster. It's achieved by

> Windows 11 is optimized for speed >Yet wont run on 4 year old hardware....that's some piss poor optimisations. Of course it will be faster. It's achieved by dropping compatibility with older slower hardware.

davrosthedalek 5y ago
Ah, come on, they really haven't. They just have taken old hardware out of their testing matrix, so if it doesn't work, they don't want to fix it. Most likely stuff will run fine.
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  It requires TPM 2.0 or it refuses to install. This includes first generation Ryzen first released in 2017 or any Intel CPU before 8th gen. Also keep in mind that not every computer you buy today includes the latest generation or even the last generation. Looking at the items on the shelf at the local best buy I see 8th-11th gen. Machines were sold new earlier this year that will never run windows 11.
  - davrosthedalek 5y ago
    At least the dev build run here on TPM 1.2, including bitlocker. Edit: I think the requirements are not enforced when installing new, not upgrading from a installed win 10.
  - georgyo 5y ago
    The TPM is not part of the CPU... It is a completely separate chip. Your point stands that many older computers had no incentive to include a TPM, and as such did not. Microsoft is doing the right thing by providing the stick to make hardware manufacturers include a TPM.
    - willis936 5y ago
      What exactly is the TPM providing the end user? Protection from some attackers, maybe, but centralizing all of their secrets into a single location that may very well be backdoored. Why can't I use my own private key in a TPM? Who else has the private key in my TPM?
      - georgyo 5y ago
        The whole point of a TPM is to reduce the possibility of a backdoor. And you do own the private key in a TPM, what makes you think you do not. Do you "own" the private key on a U2F device or a yubikey or a tensor? The special sauce of a TPM is the tracking of various parts of the the hardware. No matter what, your boot loader is unencrypted. It MUST be read by the hardware to decrypt your actual OS. Without a TPM, you can modify the bootloader or the bios, or many other things that would allow an attacker access to your key. With a TPM if anything is modified it will refuse to deliver the key. This is a level of security currently impossible without it.
        willis936 5y ago
        TPMs have a private key permanently burned into them at the factory. I have to trust that the manufacturer will not use their ability to know what the key is.
        0xcde4c3db 5y ago
        They do? I was under the impression that TPM was specifically designed to be able to be re-keyed, with the only permanent keys being "endorsement keys" used to verify the TPM's origin and identity (e.g. that someone didn't sneak in and steal your TPM or replace it with an attacker-controlled facsimile).
        georgyo 5y ago
        I am fairly sure you are incorrect. But TPM information and documentation are unfortunately almost always behind a NDA. It makes pointing to definitive information difficult.
    - blibble 5y ago
      the "TPM" on modern intel/amd boards isn't a discrete chip but a soft implementation in the board's firmware "fTPM" if they insisted on a discrete TPM they'd be at maybe 1% market share (high-end workstations for enterprise only)
  - ssklash 5y ago
    As far as I know the TPM is not a true hard requirement for installation. I'm pretty sure there are some tweaks you can make to the install ISO that will bypass this.
willis936 5y ago
It's good to be optimistic, but you should be aware that gaming benchmarks show 0-2% lower performance in Windows 11 compared to Windows 10. Sure, it's in beta, but if you're advertising higher performance and ship in two months... That higher performance won't magically appear. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mT-q2nNxAc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mT-q2nNxAc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbIvIS1kl3I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbIvIS1kl3I
MikusR 5y ago
Some of supported cpus are much slower than some not supported ones.
simooooo 5y ago
I believe they are referring to direct storage

davrosthedalek 5y ago

Ah, come on, they really haven't. They just have taken old hardware out of their testing matrix, so if it doesn't work, they don't want to fix it. Most likely stuff will run fine.

michaelmrose 5y ago
It requires TPM 2.0 or it refuses to install. This includes first generation Ryzen first released in 2017 or any Intel CPU before 8th gen. Also keep in mind that not every computer you buy today includes the latest generation or even the last generation. Looking at the items on the shelf at the local best buy I see 8th-11th gen. Machines were sold new earlier this year that will never run windows 11.
- davrosthedalek 5y ago
  At least the dev build run here on TPM 1.2, including bitlocker. Edit: I think the requirements are not enforced when installing new, not upgrading from a installed win 10.
- georgyo 5y ago
  The TPM is not part of the CPU... It is a completely separate chip. Your point stands that many older computers had no incentive to include a TPM, and as such did not. Microsoft is doing the right thing by providing the stick to make hardware manufacturers include a TPM.
  - willis936 5y ago
    What exactly is the TPM providing the end user? Protection from some attackers, maybe, but centralizing all of their secrets into a single location that may very well be backdoored. Why can't I use my own private key in a TPM? Who else has the private key in my TPM?
    - georgyo 5y ago
      The whole point of a TPM is to reduce the possibility of a backdoor. And you do own the private key in a TPM, what makes you think you do not. Do you "own" the private key on a U2F device or a yubikey or a tensor? The special sauce of a TPM is the tracking of various parts of the the hardware. No matter what, your boot loader is unencrypted. It MUST be read by the hardware to decrypt your actual OS. Without a TPM, you can modify the bootloader or the bios, or many other things that would allow an attacker access to your key. With a TPM if anything is modified it will refuse to deliver the key. This is a level of security currently impossible without it.
      - willis936 5y ago
        TPMs have a private key permanently burned into them at the factory. I have to trust that the manufacturer will not use their ability to know what the key is.
        0xcde4c3db 5y ago
        They do? I was under the impression that TPM was specifically designed to be able to be re-keyed, with the only permanent keys being "endorsement keys" used to verify the TPM's origin and identity (e.g. that someone didn't sneak in and steal your TPM or replace it with an attacker-controlled facsimile).
        georgyo 5y ago
        I am fairly sure you are incorrect. But TPM information and documentation are unfortunately almost always behind a NDA. It makes pointing to definitive information difficult.
  - blibble 5y ago
    the "TPM" on modern intel/amd boards isn't a discrete chip but a soft implementation in the board's firmware "fTPM" if they insisted on a discrete TPM they'd be at maybe 1% market share (high-end workstations for enterprise only)
- ssklash 5y ago
  As far as I know the TPM is not a true hard requirement for installation. I'm pretty sure there are some tweaks you can make to the install ISO that will bypass this.

willis936 5y ago

It's good to be optimistic, but you should be aware that gaming benchmarks show 0-2% lower performance in Windows 11 compared to Windows 10. Sure, it's in beta, but if you're advertising higher performance and ship in two months... That higher performance won't magically appear. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mT-q2nNxAc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mT-q2nNxAc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbIvIS1kl3I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbIvIS1kl3I

MikusR 5y ago

Some of supported cpus are much slower than some not supported ones.

simooooo 5y ago

I believe they are referring to direct storage