20 ms·

Impressive! Are new systems based on the 68k line still being made?

mnw21cam 5y ago
There are still systems lying around that these can be plugged into, giving the performance improvements with full backwards-compatibility and the original chipsets.
system2 5y ago
"This CPU that's on the Vampire is the best CPU I've ever had in an Amiga" Don't expect it to beat Apple M1 anytime soon.
- IntelMiner 5y ago
  The Apple M1 isn't an FPGA Or an Amiga CPU
  - system2 5y ago
    I believe HackerNews lost its humor these days.
- icedchai 5y ago
  I have one of these. It's fun to play around with. You can download Amiga OS distros (one is called "Coffin") with tons of old apps and games already preinstalled. It takes me back to my youth. It's not intended to be a replacement for a modern desktop. But it is impressive if you're into the retrocomputing / emulation scene.
- rvense 5y ago
  > Don't expect it to beat Apple M1 anytime soon. Who cares. The software for this one is better (:
- cestith 5y ago
  Are you releasing an Amiga powered by the Apple M1?
Eric_WVGG 5y ago
"Today, the 680x0 is still used by industrial machines, the aircraft industry, cars vendors and fans of retro-computing around the world." it's right there above the fold
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- unixhero 5y ago
  A friend and colleague who is a hardcore electrical engineer swears by 68K chips because he almost adores its instruction set. Says coding the assembly on them is superior to any other option for medium to large use cases.
  - karmakaze 5y ago
    This is so true, and also the reason for them being less popular. The 6502 wasn't nice like the 6809. Intel ISA is a mess but was simpler in hardware than M68K. "IBM considered the 68000 for the IBM PC but chose the Intel 8088 because the 68000 was not ready; Walden C. Rhines wrote that thus "Motorola, with its superior technology, lost the single most important design contest of the last 50 years" -- Wikipedia Too bad we missed out on M68K IBM PCs, but in the end Macs ended up running x86 (ARM next I suppose).
    - ch_123 5y ago
      Fun fact: IBM released a 68k microcomputer aimed at the laboratory market in 1982. It faded away into obscurity, largely because it was more expensive than the PC, and sold into a role which the PC was more than capable of handling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System_9000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System_9000
    - jsymolon 5y ago
      The corollary is the same thing happening which caused Apple to move to the Intel CPUs, basically, Motorola being unable to squeeze more performance out of it. On the other hand, with the volume of units that IBM Compatibles had, it may have allowed more resources to push that boundary.
zwieback 5y ago
If you count the Coldfire as part of the 68k line then yes, fairly popular microcontroller. Basically a reduced 68K instruction set. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NXP_ColdFire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NXP_ColdFire
- fredoralive 5y ago
  NXP have the Coldfire line under a "Legacy" section of their website, which doesn't exactly indicate it has a great future though. I doubt many people would be picking it for new designs nowadays.
  - wildlogic 5y ago
    I almost used Coldfire last year for a life-critical application.
  - rvense 5y ago
    I think there are places that are invested in them. If you have an in-house software stack (possibly in assembly or with significant parts written in assembly) and years of expertise and familiarity, moving to ARM is maybe not worth the investment. I don't know what "Legacy" means to NXP, exactly. They're probably not making new, compatible cores. But if you're buying more than a few hundred per year you're likely to be able to do it for a while yet. Microchip, I know, use the phrase "customer-driven obsolescence", which means that as long as people are buying the chips they will keep making them. They still have a few 5V programmable logic devices that are maybe 25 years old but still available in onesies, and some from that series that I've heard they make as a sort of "print on demand" system if you buy the 500 or however many are in one batch. In general obsolescence in embedded hardware is very different to PC software, especially the kind that's normally discussed here.
    - zwieback 5y ago
      Definitely true. Also, investment in on-chip peripherals can lock companies into an architecture much longer than on higher-level platforms. We spent a lot of time debugging DMA, SPI, interrupt controllers, etc. on a micro platform and that work is not something we'd want to redo. Basically, in embedded products you end up touching everything from the app, OS (if there is one), device drivers all the way down to the on-chip peripherals.
duskwuff 5y ago
Not really. The vast majority of the 68k series -- and in particular, all of the higher-performance parts -- have been out of production for many years. Some 68000 variants are still available, but are "not recommended for new designs" and are likely to be discontinued once supplies run out.

There are still systems lying around that these can be plugged into, giving the performance improvements with full backwards-compatibility and the original chipsets.

system2 5y ago

"This CPU that's on the Vampire is the best CPU I've ever had in an Amiga" Don't expect it to beat Apple M1 anytime soon.

IntelMiner 5y ago
The Apple M1 isn't an FPGA Or an Amiga CPU
- system2 5y ago
  I believe HackerNews lost its humor these days.
icedchai 5y ago
I have one of these. It's fun to play around with. You can download Amiga OS distros (one is called "Coffin") with tons of old apps and games already preinstalled. It takes me back to my youth. It's not intended to be a replacement for a modern desktop. But it is impressive if you're into the retrocomputing / emulation scene.
rvense 5y ago
> Don't expect it to beat Apple M1 anytime soon. Who cares. The software for this one is better (:
cestith 5y ago
Are you releasing an Amiga powered by the Apple M1?

Eric_WVGG 5y ago

"Today, the 680x0 is still used by industrial machines, the aircraft industry, cars vendors and fans of retro-computing around the world." it's right there above the fold

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
unixhero 5y ago
A friend and colleague who is a hardcore electrical engineer swears by 68K chips because he almost adores its instruction set. Says coding the assembly on them is superior to any other option for medium to large use cases.
- karmakaze 5y ago
  This is so true, and also the reason for them being less popular. The 6502 wasn't nice like the 6809. Intel ISA is a mess but was simpler in hardware than M68K. "IBM considered the 68000 for the IBM PC but chose the Intel 8088 because the 68000 was not ready; Walden C. Rhines wrote that thus "Motorola, with its superior technology, lost the single most important design contest of the last 50 years" -- Wikipedia Too bad we missed out on M68K IBM PCs, but in the end Macs ended up running x86 (ARM next I suppose).
  - ch_123 5y ago
    Fun fact: IBM released a 68k microcomputer aimed at the laboratory market in 1982. It faded away into obscurity, largely because it was more expensive than the PC, and sold into a role which the PC was more than capable of handling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System_9000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System_9000
  - jsymolon 5y ago
    The corollary is the same thing happening which caused Apple to move to the Intel CPUs, basically, Motorola being unable to squeeze more performance out of it. On the other hand, with the volume of units that IBM Compatibles had, it may have allowed more resources to push that boundary.

zwieback 5y ago

If you count the Coldfire as part of the 68k line then yes, fairly popular microcontroller. Basically a reduced 68K instruction set. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NXP_ColdFire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NXP_ColdFire

fredoralive 5y ago
NXP have the Coldfire line under a "Legacy" section of their website, which doesn't exactly indicate it has a great future though. I doubt many people would be picking it for new designs nowadays.
- wildlogic 5y ago
  I almost used Coldfire last year for a life-critical application.
- rvense 5y ago
  I think there are places that are invested in them. If you have an in-house software stack (possibly in assembly or with significant parts written in assembly) and years of expertise and familiarity, moving to ARM is maybe not worth the investment. I don't know what "Legacy" means to NXP, exactly. They're probably not making new, compatible cores. But if you're buying more than a few hundred per year you're likely to be able to do it for a while yet. Microchip, I know, use the phrase "customer-driven obsolescence", which means that as long as people are buying the chips they will keep making them. They still have a few 5V programmable logic devices that are maybe 25 years old but still available in onesies, and some from that series that I've heard they make as a sort of "print on demand" system if you buy the 500 or however many are in one batch. In general obsolescence in embedded hardware is very different to PC software, especially the kind that's normally discussed here.
  - zwieback 5y ago
    Definitely true. Also, investment in on-chip peripherals can lock companies into an architecture much longer than on higher-level platforms. We spent a lot of time debugging DMA, SPI, interrupt controllers, etc. on a micro platform and that work is not something we'd want to redo. Basically, in embedded products you end up touching everything from the app, OS (if there is one), device drivers all the way down to the on-chip peripherals.

duskwuff 5y ago

Not really. The vast majority of the 68k series -- and in particular, all of the higher-performance parts -- have been out of production for many years. Some 68000 variants are still available, but are "not recommended for new designs" and are likely to be discontinued once supplies run out.