6 ms·

Hence my persistent usage of 'closer;' no camera or lens will reproduce our eyes' field-of-vision or depth-of-field or color rendition exactly, but we can appro

Hence my persistent usage of 'closer;' no camera or lens will reproduce our eyes' field-of-vision or depth-of-field or color rendition exactly, but we can approximate them to the best of our technical capacity. Shooting wide-angle in color is aesthetically and objectively closer to what we (typically) see than a black-and-white telephoto picture.

falcrist 5y ago
> Shooting wide-angle in color is aesthetically and objectively closer to what we (typically) see than a black-and-white telephoto picture. I agree about color, but not focal length. Using very short focal lengths introduces highly distracting distortions. "Normal" focal lengths (35-50mm) are closer to what we experience, despite not having the wide field of view.
- psychomugs 5y ago
  Yet this experience is subjective; the cone of visual attention is a selective cocktail party effect. In an objective measure of the physical optics, wider is truer, but note that I'm not necessarily saying 'better.'
  - falcrist 5y ago
    Again, I disagree with the assertion that wider is any more true to human vision, primarily since distortions are immediately apparent as the focal length gets shorter than 24mm or even 28mm. Using very short focal lengths just compresses what would otherwise be peripheral vision towards the center. This isn't somehow "more true" to human vision. In order for such short focal lengths to truly be representative of human vision, you'd have to abandon rectilinear optics and flat media; and you'd have to graduate the level of detail such that most of the resolution was concentrated in the center rather than the periphery. If you're not willing to do so, a "normal" focal length reproducing the central vision will always be truer to human vision due to having a more reasonable perspective.
    - psychomugs 5y ago
      I can't tell if you're arguing for or against barrel distortion to improve accuracy, but both exist in either case [1,2]. Our attention and peripheral vision come into play also in how we consume a photograph. You will employ your peripheral vision less when you view images on your phone compared to a wall-sized print. Additionally, the longer the focal length, the more prescriptive the effect; the photographer and photograph are telling you what to look at. Wide lenses invite the photographer to work with juxtaposition and layering, and the viewer to selectively attend to different elements, which is actually in agreement with your closer-to-experience angle, i.e. the viewer must decide where to focus their cone of attention in a wide-angle photograph, just like they would in real life. Again, I am not dealing with an absolute capital-T True representation of human vision. We are constrained to modern optical formulae and 2D mediums of commercially available photographic equipment. You could snowball this all the way into stereoscopic 3D fisheye videos livestreamed from eyewear, to get even closer to True human vision. I still maintain that wide lenses are so useful and popular for documentary and snapshot purposes because they record more of the elements we once and will attend to; a more convincing simulacrum. It's no coincidence that 35mm and 28mm and wider are used by so many photojournalists and street/documentary photographers, often exclusively in the latter case. [1] https://petapixel.com/2016/08/01/laowa-12mm-f2-8-widest-f2-8-lens-zero-distortion/ https://petapixel.com/2016/08/01/laowa-12mm-f2-8-widest-f2-8... [2] https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1089935-REG/rokinon_12m_n_12mm_f_2_8_ed_as.html https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1089935-REG/rokinon_1...
      - falcrist 5y ago
        I'm arguing that wide angles are only more representative if you use fisheye distortion and project the image onto a curved media. If you're using flat media and rectilinear optics, shorter lenses get progressively less and less representative of human vision. > the photographer and photograph are telling you what to look at. This is always true at every focal length. Your choice of composition informs the viewer whether it's a wide angle shot or super-telephoto. > ...wide lenses are so useful and popular for documentary and snapshot purposes because they record more of the elements... Shorter lenses do incorporate more into the image. That doesn't make them more or less representative of human vision.

falcrist 5y ago

> Shooting wide-angle in color is aesthetically and objectively closer to what we (typically) see than a black-and-white telephoto picture. I agree about color, but not focal length. Using very short focal lengths introduces highly distracting distortions. "Normal" focal lengths (35-50mm) are closer to what we experience, despite not having the wide field of view.

psychomugs 5y ago
Yet this experience is subjective; the cone of visual attention is a selective cocktail party effect. In an objective measure of the physical optics, wider is truer, but note that I'm not necessarily saying 'better.'
- falcrist 5y ago
  Again, I disagree with the assertion that wider is any more true to human vision, primarily since distortions are immediately apparent as the focal length gets shorter than 24mm or even 28mm. Using very short focal lengths just compresses what would otherwise be peripheral vision towards the center. This isn't somehow "more true" to human vision. In order for such short focal lengths to truly be representative of human vision, you'd have to abandon rectilinear optics and flat media; and you'd have to graduate the level of detail such that most of the resolution was concentrated in the center rather than the periphery. If you're not willing to do so, a "normal" focal length reproducing the central vision will always be truer to human vision due to having a more reasonable perspective.
  - psychomugs 5y ago
    I can't tell if you're arguing for or against barrel distortion to improve accuracy, but both exist in either case [1,2]. Our attention and peripheral vision come into play also in how we consume a photograph. You will employ your peripheral vision less when you view images on your phone compared to a wall-sized print. Additionally, the longer the focal length, the more prescriptive the effect; the photographer and photograph are telling you what to look at. Wide lenses invite the photographer to work with juxtaposition and layering, and the viewer to selectively attend to different elements, which is actually in agreement with your closer-to-experience angle, i.e. the viewer must decide where to focus their cone of attention in a wide-angle photograph, just like they would in real life. Again, I am not dealing with an absolute capital-T True representation of human vision. We are constrained to modern optical formulae and 2D mediums of commercially available photographic equipment. You could snowball this all the way into stereoscopic 3D fisheye videos livestreamed from eyewear, to get even closer to True human vision. I still maintain that wide lenses are so useful and popular for documentary and snapshot purposes because they record more of the elements we once and will attend to; a more convincing simulacrum. It's no coincidence that 35mm and 28mm and wider are used by so many photojournalists and street/documentary photographers, often exclusively in the latter case. [1] https://petapixel.com/2016/08/01/laowa-12mm-f2-8-widest-f2-8-lens-zero-distortion/ https://petapixel.com/2016/08/01/laowa-12mm-f2-8-widest-f2-8... [2] https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1089935-REG/rokinon_12m_n_12mm_f_2_8_ed_as.html https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1089935-REG/rokinon_1...
    - falcrist 5y ago
      I'm arguing that wide angles are only more representative if you use fisheye distortion and project the image onto a curved media. If you're using flat media and rectilinear optics, shorter lenses get progressively less and less representative of human vision. > the photographer and photograph are telling you what to look at. This is always true at every focal length. Your choice of composition informs the viewer whether it's a wide angle shot or super-telephoto. > ...wide lenses are so useful and popular for documentary and snapshot purposes because they record more of the elements... Shorter lenses do incorporate more into the image. That doesn't make them more or less representative of human vision.