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The arguments in this campaign feel poorly made, and with poor justifications. Some feel like they are made in bad faith. The problem is, maybe this is the bes

The arguments in this campaign feel poorly made, and with poor justifications. Some feel like they are made in bad faith. The problem is, maybe this is the best that can be done for a general audience? The media fails to get the nuance right, and it's clear that general audiences are unable to understand most nuanced arguments, so maybe something incorrect/bad-faith, but that argues in vaguely the right direction is better than not challenging these companies at all?

rapnie 5y ago
Social cooling [0] also offers a different perspective that can be helpful with the broader public. At least it did very well here [1]. [0] https://www.socialcooling.com/ https://www.socialcooling.com/ [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24627363 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24627363
- danpalmer 5y ago
  Thanks, this looks really good. It lays out the problem much more. Saying things like "Apple tracks you" isn't really useful because a) everything tracks you, and b) Apple are probably not using it to build a profile and that's the bad bit. Just to use one example. I like that this builds the intuition and critical thinking about tracking and profiling and its impacts, rather than making specific claims.
  - mandmandam 5y ago
    Though I take your point, poster design doesn't allow (or aim for) a huge amount of nuance. And I'd guess that Apple was likely chosen as the "tracks you" because they push their privacy angle, despite not quite living up to it. It makes sense in that way to target them - if they're widely considered as better than alternatives, what does that say about the alternatives?
    - danpalmer 5y ago
      As I said, I'm not sure of a solution to the nuance, but I do think each of these is a little irresponsible in its own way. To use the Apple example – you're right they don't quite live up to their privacy marketing (because it's marketing!), but if we teach people that Apple are bad at privacy the answer is that they won't value the privacy angle and will buy cheap Huawei phones, which is about the worst possible outcome. The reality is that Apple are ~90% good at privacy, and most people can probably trust them more than anyone else on the market.
908B64B197 5y ago
It's from a French collective. It's interesting how it's fashionable in Europe to bash on "foreign evil tech giants" and every politician tries to fleece them with some fees. I guess it's easier than bootstrapping a homegrown ecosystem of highly successful companies. Ironically, European new grads have no issues coming to SV to innovate...

rapnie 5y ago

Social cooling [0] also offers a different perspective that can be helpful with the broader public. At least it did very well here [1]. [0] https://www.socialcooling.com/ https://www.socialcooling.com/ [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24627363 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24627363

danpalmer 5y ago
Thanks, this looks really good. It lays out the problem much more. Saying things like "Apple tracks you" isn't really useful because a) everything tracks you, and b) Apple are probably not using it to build a profile and that's the bad bit. Just to use one example. I like that this builds the intuition and critical thinking about tracking and profiling and its impacts, rather than making specific claims.
- mandmandam 5y ago
  Though I take your point, poster design doesn't allow (or aim for) a huge amount of nuance. And I'd guess that Apple was likely chosen as the "tracks you" because they push their privacy angle, despite not quite living up to it. It makes sense in that way to target them - if they're widely considered as better than alternatives, what does that say about the alternatives?
  - danpalmer 5y ago
    As I said, I'm not sure of a solution to the nuance, but I do think each of these is a little irresponsible in its own way. To use the Apple example – you're right they don't quite live up to their privacy marketing (because it's marketing!), but if we teach people that Apple are bad at privacy the answer is that they won't value the privacy angle and will buy cheap Huawei phones, which is about the worst possible outcome. The reality is that Apple are ~90% good at privacy, and most people can probably trust them more than anyone else on the market.

908B64B197 5y ago

It's from a French collective. It's interesting how it's fashionable in Europe to bash on "foreign evil tech giants" and every politician tries to fleece them with some fees. I guess it's easier than bootstrapping a homegrown ecosystem of highly successful companies. Ironically, European new grads have no issues coming to SV to innovate...