4 ms·

I’m always a bit entertained by people who claim they want to express a non-biased view of partisan dynamics, and then proceed to express something that is a pe

I’m always a bit entertained by people who claim they want to express a non-biased view of partisan dynamics, and then proceed to express something that is a perfect representation of the fundamental attribution error. Personally I think the primary contention that exists between the dogma of the left and the right is just the contention between collectivism and individualism. But outliers aside, I don’t think you end up with substantially different policies from one side or the other, regardless of the contrast in the dogma. I don’t think members of either tribe are substantially different in their dogmatism, reactionism… or in their proclivity to deeply reflect on the views they hold. For any person who finds themselves substantially aligned with a mainstream political ideology, I think the chance that they’ve put a substantial amount of critical thought into their world view is very close to 0.

andrew_ 5y ago
> is just the contention between collectivism and individualism Yes. > I’m always a bit entertained by people who claim they want to express a non-biased view of partisan dynamics, and then proceed to express something that is a perfect representation of the fundamental attribution error. Were you commenting on the parent to my reply, or to my reply specifically? Genuine curiosity.
- AmericanChopper 5y ago
  Sorry for not being clear, I think the error is in the comment above yours. I think your comment is very level headed.
larksimian 5y ago
I guess you got downvoted for both-sidesing it(Upvoted, btw :D)? I mean both parties do quite suck, even though I still think the GOP is actively harmful, while the Democratic party has good ideas that it fails to build on. The actual party policies only really diverge on social issues. Economic policy consensus has been corporatist since the Reagan years. The main difference is the democrats are willing to blast out the occasional one-off stimulus and the GOP is also willing to do that but a smaller one-off stimulus. I don't really see collectivism vs individualism as a left-right split. The religious conservative wing of the right is culturally collectivist, the catholic conservatives are also pretty economically collectivist. The liberal mainstream is highly culturally individualistic(well... within the boundaries of acceptable lib behavior). The left can be almost culturally atomistic, if you go into the disown your racist/homophobic relatives areas of the ideology.
- AmericanChopper 5y ago
  I made the distinction between dogma and policy because I don’t think the two are very strongly connected. I think there are localised outliers like California and Texas, where the ideological differences are more effectively implemented in policy and legislation. But generally speaking, I don’t think you get a substantially different government when one party is elected over the other. The dogma however is substantially different. It’s just that speaking differently doesn’t necessarily translate to acting differently. I think the reason I’m downvoted (and that my comments would generally meet disapproval in most contexts) is due to the nature of tribalist politics. A political tribalist believes that we are good and they are bad. If our policies fail it’s because of reasons other than our policies being bad, if their policies fail it’s because they were intentionally designed to cause harm. They are the ones behaving tribalistically, while we are open minded and accepting. A core element of the tribalistic psychology is that you and your team aren’t the ones perpetuating it. Tribalism is bad, and they are the source of it. It is an archetypal example of the fundamental attribution error, and a tribalistic conservative is just as likely to downvote you for suggesting that as a tribalistic liberal is.

andrew_ 5y ago

> is just the contention between collectivism and individualism Yes. > I’m always a bit entertained by people who claim they want to express a non-biased view of partisan dynamics, and then proceed to express something that is a perfect representation of the fundamental attribution error. Were you commenting on the parent to my reply, or to my reply specifically? Genuine curiosity.

AmericanChopper 5y ago
Sorry for not being clear, I think the error is in the comment above yours. I think your comment is very level headed.

larksimian 5y ago

I guess you got downvoted for both-sidesing it(Upvoted, btw :D)? I mean both parties do quite suck, even though I still think the GOP is actively harmful, while the Democratic party has good ideas that it fails to build on. The actual party policies only really diverge on social issues. Economic policy consensus has been corporatist since the Reagan years. The main difference is the democrats are willing to blast out the occasional one-off stimulus and the GOP is also willing to do that but a smaller one-off stimulus. I don't really see collectivism vs individualism as a left-right split. The religious conservative wing of the right is culturally collectivist, the catholic conservatives are also pretty economically collectivist. The liberal mainstream is highly culturally individualistic(well... within the boundaries of acceptable lib behavior). The left can be almost culturally atomistic, if you go into the disown your racist/homophobic relatives areas of the ideology.

AmericanChopper 5y ago
I made the distinction between dogma and policy because I don’t think the two are very strongly connected. I think there are localised outliers like California and Texas, where the ideological differences are more effectively implemented in policy and legislation. But generally speaking, I don’t think you get a substantially different government when one party is elected over the other. The dogma however is substantially different. It’s just that speaking differently doesn’t necessarily translate to acting differently. I think the reason I’m downvoted (and that my comments would generally meet disapproval in most contexts) is due to the nature of tribalist politics. A political tribalist believes that we are good and they are bad. If our policies fail it’s because of reasons other than our policies being bad, if their policies fail it’s because they were intentionally designed to cause harm. They are the ones behaving tribalistically, while we are open minded and accepting. A core element of the tribalistic psychology is that you and your team aren’t the ones perpetuating it. Tribalism is bad, and they are the source of it. It is an archetypal example of the fundamental attribution error, and a tribalistic conservative is just as likely to downvote you for suggesting that as a tribalistic liberal is.