4 ms·

You presume infinite resources. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wave_(Arizona) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wave_(Arizona) has a rationing system. > Du

You presume infinite resources. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wave_(Arizona) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wave_(Arizona) has a rationing system. > Due to the fragile nature of the formation and the large number of people wishing to visit it, a daily lottery system is used to dispense only ten next-day permits in person at the Kanab visitor center. Additionally, ten online permits for each date are available four months in advance of a planned trip. There will be a perpetual shortage. This is not a bad thing ... unless you don't care about preserving things for the future. Do you still think rationing is bad? Or is my example not a case of rationing? Bavaria is majority Catholic. "Demonstrate financial need" is likely a much stronger selection mechanism. You didn't answer my question about why, if there's a wait list for this place, and since it's proven to be economically sustainable, other housing isn't built along these lines. > corruption seeps in and becomes endemic After 500 years, is the Fuggerei endowment fund corrupt? Corruption can seep in whenever the person making the decision isn't the person making the profit. Even in a free market.

sokoloff 5y ago
It’s not obvious to me that this is economically self-sustaining, that is to say it could be recreated starting from scratch today (without the initial grant from the Fuggers).
gruez 5y ago
>Bavaria is majority Catholic. "Demonstrate financial need" is likely a much stronger selection mechanism. According to wikipedia bavaria is only 49.6% catholic. I'm not sure how excluding more than half the population on the basis of religion can be justified. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria#Demographics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria#Demographics
- Moru 5y ago
  German Catholic is pretty strong still. Church runs a lot of hospitals and kid/youth things, daycare and so on. They require Catholic employees, they frown upon non married couples and so on.
- eesmith 5y ago
  Then my source is out of date. As your source points out, 10 years ago that was 56.4% -- http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bavaria&oldid=436936921 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bavaria&oldid=4369... My point is that the requirement to demonstrate financial need is likely a significantly stricter criterion than the requirement to be Catholic, so the latter shouldn't be singled out.
nanis 5y ago
> corruption seeps in and becomes endemic After 500 years, is the Fuggerei endowment fund corrupt? I do not know about their internal workings. As I said, in this special case, verified adherence to the rules of a specific religion may help. However, history is filled with examples of catholic clergy dispensing with favorable judgements in exchange for things of value. How do you know if a more "deserving" person was not passed over for someone else who may be had a good connection or promised personal favors etc. Regardless, I was referring to the situation when someone tries to replicate something which seems to work in a 160 person case at a grand scale.
- mattcwilson 5y ago
  Whose definition of “deserving” is most applicable here, and why theirs? Who is suggesting any intent to replicate this at a grand scale?
  - nanis 5y ago
    I prefer not to have to prove that I am deserving according to someone's value system, just that I am able to pay the price.
    - mattcwilson 5y ago
      And that’s a perfectly valid preference. What does it have to do with the Fuggerai, or the mentioned new settlements planned in Sierra Leone or Lithuania?
- eesmith 5y ago
  You implied the corruption was inevitable. Either the endowment fund is corrupt already, or your assertion about 'inevitable' is meaningless. History is filled with lots of examples of corruption. Including in free markets. You were referring to the existence of a years-long waiting list, as if it were a meaningful evidence they should raise rents in order to avoid the artificial scarcity you think is universally bad. Who do you think they should kick out, and why?

sokoloff 5y ago

It’s not obvious to me that this is economically self-sustaining, that is to say it could be recreated starting from scratch today (without the initial grant from the Fuggers).

gruez 5y ago

>Bavaria is majority Catholic. "Demonstrate financial need" is likely a much stronger selection mechanism. According to wikipedia bavaria is only 49.6% catholic. I'm not sure how excluding more than half the population on the basis of religion can be justified. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria#Demographics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria#Demographics

Moru 5y ago
German Catholic is pretty strong still. Church runs a lot of hospitals and kid/youth things, daycare and so on. They require Catholic employees, they frown upon non married couples and so on.
eesmith 5y ago
Then my source is out of date. As your source points out, 10 years ago that was 56.4% -- http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bavaria&oldid=436936921 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bavaria&oldid=4369... My point is that the requirement to demonstrate financial need is likely a significantly stricter criterion than the requirement to be Catholic, so the latter shouldn't be singled out.

nanis 5y ago

> corruption seeps in and becomes endemic After 500 years, is the Fuggerei endowment fund corrupt? I do not know about their internal workings. As I said, in this special case, verified adherence to the rules of a specific religion may help. However, history is filled with examples of catholic clergy dispensing with favorable judgements in exchange for things of value. How do you know if a more "deserving" person was not passed over for someone else who may be had a good connection or promised personal favors etc. Regardless, I was referring to the situation when someone tries to replicate something which seems to work in a 160 person case at a grand scale.

mattcwilson 5y ago
Whose definition of “deserving” is most applicable here, and why theirs? Who is suggesting any intent to replicate this at a grand scale?
- nanis 5y ago
  I prefer not to have to prove that I am deserving according to someone's value system, just that I am able to pay the price.
  - mattcwilson 5y ago
    And that’s a perfectly valid preference. What does it have to do with the Fuggerai, or the mentioned new settlements planned in Sierra Leone or Lithuania?
eesmith 5y ago
You implied the corruption was inevitable. Either the endowment fund is corrupt already, or your assertion about 'inevitable' is meaningless. History is filled with lots of examples of corruption. Including in free markets. You were referring to the existence of a years-long waiting list, as if it were a meaningful evidence they should raise rents in order to avoid the artificial scarcity you think is universally bad. Who do you think they should kick out, and why?