5 ms·

You forget the part where all of this was necessary precisely because OEMs couldn't be bothered to update their drivers to work with more recent versions of the

by huibf 5y ago

You forget the part where all of this was necessary precisely because OEMs couldn't be bothered to update their drivers to work with more recent versions of the kernel.

fsflover 5y ago
One could require FLOSS drivers instead, so the community would have a possibility to update them later. This is exactly how it works on GNU/Linux phones, Librem 5 and Pinephone.
- izacus 5y ago
  Ah yes, just "require it". So simple. That's why we're just flooded with fully FLOSS supported hardware right?
  - fsflover 5y ago
    Did I miss a big player requiring it? What are you talking about?
monocasa 5y ago
I'm not sure how switching to a more permissive driver model and licence where now you won't even get the source to these drivers will make the situation better.
phh 5y ago
Which kernel is latest high-end Pixel running? Three years ago, gregkh did a presentation about LTS in Android. Guess who was using latest LTS kernels. Google? Nope. Sony and Essential are who. Guess who upstreamed support for their phones in Linux kernel? Google? Still nope, again it's Sony. How long was Pixel 1 supported? Ah yes, a whopping 3 years. (Same for Pixel 2 I believe). Who does better? Fairphone (circa 100 overall employees, and not many are software engineers), and nVidia. Guess who provides major kernel upgrades? Sony (but not Google-certified sadly), and nVidia. So far, Google hasn't shown any sign they are more capable than average OEMs to upgrade my devices.
- trulyrandom 5y ago
  My Pixel 5 with the latest update installed is running Linux 4.19. Pretty old, but still supported until 2024 according to kernel.org. Still, a more recent kernel release would be preferable of course.
- izacus 5y ago
  > Which kernel is latest high-end Pixel running? The one Qualcomm supports in their BSP package for Pixels SoC. You seem to not understand who exactly provides kernels for Android and other embedded devices.
  - monocasa 5y ago
    That's their point. Google, for their own phones, put next to no effort upstreaming the code, but accepted the vendor status quo. If they can't even wrangle this for their own phones, how is going to a more permissive license and embracing proprietary modules going to make the situation better?
    - huibf 5y ago
      What matters is having a stable API, not having the code. Nobody needs the code if there's nothing to fix.
      - monocasa 5y ago
        And when we have an example of perfect phone APIs that don't need updates and perfectly written drivers to back those APIs then we can start to entertain that idea.
        rfoo 5y ago
        Stable does not mean perfect. It means putting a version number on it, don't fucking change it pointlessly, and decouple it from the other parts of the kernel.

by huibf 5y ago

You forget the part where all of this was necessary precisely because OEMs couldn't be bothered to update their drivers to work with more recent versions of the kernel.

fsflover 5y ago

One could require FLOSS drivers instead, so the community would have a possibility to update them later. This is exactly how it works on GNU/Linux phones, Librem 5 and Pinephone.

izacus 5y ago
Ah yes, just "require it". So simple. That's why we're just flooded with fully FLOSS supported hardware right?
- fsflover 5y ago
  Did I miss a big player requiring it? What are you talking about?

monocasa 5y ago

I'm not sure how switching to a more permissive driver model and licence where now you won't even get the source to these drivers will make the situation better.

phh 5y ago

Which kernel is latest high-end Pixel running? Three years ago, gregkh did a presentation about LTS in Android. Guess who was using latest LTS kernels. Google? Nope. Sony and Essential are who. Guess who upstreamed support for their phones in Linux kernel? Google? Still nope, again it's Sony. How long was Pixel 1 supported? Ah yes, a whopping 3 years. (Same for Pixel 2 I believe). Who does better? Fairphone (circa 100 overall employees, and not many are software engineers), and nVidia. Guess who provides major kernel upgrades? Sony (but not Google-certified sadly), and nVidia. So far, Google hasn't shown any sign they are more capable than average OEMs to upgrade my devices.

trulyrandom 5y ago
My Pixel 5 with the latest update installed is running Linux 4.19. Pretty old, but still supported until 2024 according to kernel.org. Still, a more recent kernel release would be preferable of course.
izacus 5y ago
> Which kernel is latest high-end Pixel running? The one Qualcomm supports in their BSP package for Pixels SoC. You seem to not understand who exactly provides kernels for Android and other embedded devices.
- monocasa 5y ago
  That's their point. Google, for their own phones, put next to no effort upstreaming the code, but accepted the vendor status quo. If they can't even wrangle this for their own phones, how is going to a more permissive license and embracing proprietary modules going to make the situation better?
  - huibf 5y ago
    What matters is having a stable API, not having the code. Nobody needs the code if there's nothing to fix.
    - monocasa 5y ago
      And when we have an example of perfect phone APIs that don't need updates and perfectly written drivers to back those APIs then we can start to entertain that idea.
      - rfoo 5y ago
        Stable does not mean perfect. It means putting a version number on it, don't fucking change it pointlessly, and decouple it from the other parts of the kernel.