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In the US, there was more coal power generation in 2021 than 2020 because 2020 was an abormally low year of power consumption. If we skip over the pandemic, the

In the US, there was more coal power generation in 2021 than 2020 because 2020 was an abormally low year of power consumption. If we skip over the pandemic, there was less electricty generated from coal in 2021 than 2019. Coal in the US has been in long-term decline since around 2008. Natural gas seems to be holding fairly stable at the moment. Depending on source, it looks like the US retired some 9 to 11 GW of coal power plants in 2020. However, China is attempting an energy-intensive recovery from the pandemic and put 38 GW of coal plants into operation in 2020. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-coal/chinas-new-coal-power-plant-capacity-in-2020-more-than-three-times-rest-of-worlds-study-idUSKBN2A308U https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-coal/chinas-new-coa... https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-news/electric-power/060121-us-coal-fired-power-output-decline-continues-with-last-pseg-coal-plant-retirement https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-ne...

yesbut 5y ago
China is producing all of the "super affordable" solar panels that everyone else are importing. All of that solar panel manufacturing requires coal.
- robocat 5y ago
  Silicon and Aluminium need lots of electricity. Nice graph showing about 2/3 of solar cell embodied energy inputs is electricity: https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0927024821003202-ga1_lrg.jpg https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S09270248210032... from https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0927024821003202?dgcid=rss_sd_all https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09270... Presumably China uses coal because it is most economical for them in the short term (not so good for the world!)
  - yesbut 5y ago
    Do you know of any solar factories using solar smelting for solar mass production yet?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- afarrell 5y ago
  Yes. Solving problems for the future generally requires using problematic systems that currently exist.
  - yesbut 5y ago
    I wonder where all of these raw materials for all the solar panels and wind turbines is going to come from. Do you think we can replace all of our energy with renewable energy without destroying the remaining natural habitats? I feel like the drive to green energy is only to allow us to continue growth and consumption instead of saving the natural world. It seems short sighted.
    - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
      > Do you think we can replace all of our energy with renewable energy without destroying the remaining natural habitats? Yes. In fact it's pretty much the only way to not destroy those remaining natural habitats so it's good were pursuing it if that's what your worried about.
      - yesbut 5y ago
        How much mountain top removal and mining will we need to do in order to build out all of this green energy? Steel, copper, concrete, rare earths, etc. all require fossil fuels. The green energy systems all require those components. Just take copper for example. How many tonnes of copper are going to be required to outfit all of the wind turbines? Copper isn't renewable. It will require endless mining and extraction to get anything close to the amount of copper we need. I feel like people are ignoring the elephant in the room.
        ZeroGravitas 5y ago
        > Steel, copper, concrete, rare earths, etc. all require fossil fuels. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this, but in most ways it could be interpreted, that's not true. Copper doesn't require fossil fuels, and if it did then we'd come up with an alternative.
- VintageCool 5y ago
  There was more wind capacity installed in China in 2020 than there was in the US.

yesbut 5y ago

China is producing all of the "super affordable" solar panels that everyone else are importing. All of that solar panel manufacturing requires coal.

robocat 5y ago
Silicon and Aluminium need lots of electricity. Nice graph showing about 2/3 of solar cell embodied energy inputs is electricity: https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0927024821003202-ga1_lrg.jpg https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S09270248210032... from https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0927024821003202?dgcid=rss_sd_all https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09270... Presumably China uses coal because it is most economical for them in the short term (not so good for the world!)
- yesbut 5y ago
  Do you know of any solar factories using solar smelting for solar mass production yet?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
afarrell 5y ago
Yes. Solving problems for the future generally requires using problematic systems that currently exist.
- yesbut 5y ago
  I wonder where all of these raw materials for all the solar panels and wind turbines is going to come from. Do you think we can replace all of our energy with renewable energy without destroying the remaining natural habitats? I feel like the drive to green energy is only to allow us to continue growth and consumption instead of saving the natural world. It seems short sighted.
  - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
    > Do you think we can replace all of our energy with renewable energy without destroying the remaining natural habitats? Yes. In fact it's pretty much the only way to not destroy those remaining natural habitats so it's good were pursuing it if that's what your worried about.
    - yesbut 5y ago
      How much mountain top removal and mining will we need to do in order to build out all of this green energy? Steel, copper, concrete, rare earths, etc. all require fossil fuels. The green energy systems all require those components. Just take copper for example. How many tonnes of copper are going to be required to outfit all of the wind turbines? Copper isn't renewable. It will require endless mining and extraction to get anything close to the amount of copper we need. I feel like people are ignoring the elephant in the room.
      - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
        > Steel, copper, concrete, rare earths, etc. all require fossil fuels. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this, but in most ways it could be interpreted, that's not true. Copper doesn't require fossil fuels, and if it did then we'd come up with an alternative.
VintageCool 5y ago
There was more wind capacity installed in China in 2020 than there was in the US.