3 ms·

> You've demonstrated that only the rich can compete; not really refuting the point, is it? You are moving the goalposts now. But anyway: - The entire argumen

by qsort 5y ago

> You've demonstrated that only the rich can compete; not really refuting the point, is it? You are moving the goalposts now. But anyway: - The entire argument doesn't even apply to 50% of Magic. - Even only considering constructed, it's objectively not the case that more money = more results. Sure, if you want to play competitively you have to dump ~1k/yr in it, but that's not unusual for games/sports. If you are not interested in competitive play, you can get away with a fraction of that. > We'd get a few boosters of a new expansion, they'd get a case Giant red herring. Unless you are playing actual competitive formats, you can make decent, almost competitive decks for literally spare change.

klyrs 5y ago
OC> And richer players have access better to cards that poorer payers can never hope to be dealt. >> You've demonstrated that only the rich can compete; not really refuting the point, is it? > You are moving the goalposts now. Am I? Was it you who set the goalpost wherein Magic is only about tournament-level play and not a casual game? Or does it seem to you that the OC's comment might be a statement about the economic situation in the broader cultural context that the game exists in? I like how you say "almost competitive decks." Granted, I haven't played for over a good decade, but through the ~15 years that I did play, powerful rares were typically between several dollars and tens of dollars. The decks of my richer friends were stuffed to the gills with such cards -- it adds up, and a good deck can cost a couple hundred bucks. That might be spare change for you, but it isn't for a lot of magic players. And like, a draft game is fun but at a cost of 4 boosters per player, that's not pocket change. We'd use rules like "all commons" to level the playing field.
- qsort 5y ago
  > Was it you who set the goalpost wherein Magic is only about tournament-level play and not a casual game? It's either a competitive game, and therefore comparable to other competitive games and sports, that can cost you similar amounts, or it's a casual game, where you are not after 100% efficiency. > I like how you say "almost competitive decks." https://www.mtggoldfish.com/decks/budget/standard#paper https://www.mtggoldfish.com/decks/budget/standard#paper Help yourself. Most of those decks are underpowered when compared to tier-1 competitive decks, but can definitely steal games. None of them are anywhere close $200, and that's at standard-legal prices. Rotated cards are effectively $0. > We'd use rules like "all commons" https://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/gameplay/formats/pauper https://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/gameplay/formats/paup... > And like, a draft game is fun but at a cost of 4 boosters per player, that's not pocket change If you're going to the store to draft, you're paying $12-$15 for a tournament that's going to last several hours, played in the exact same format they're playing at the Pro Tour, and with prizes. That's the price of a movie ticket. I understand that's still a lot to many people, but it's a far cry from "only the rich can compete". The prices are high and they could be lower, but they're not marginally higher than those of many other sports/games/activities. Also, there's online play. If you're good at the game, you actually NET money.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    Nah, your black-and-white characterization doesn't describe reality very well. Point is, when folks bring competition decks to play with casual players, the result is not fun for the casual players.

by qsort 5y ago

klyrs 5y ago

OC> And richer players have access better to cards that poorer payers can never hope to be dealt. >> You've demonstrated that only the rich can compete; not really refuting the point, is it? > You are moving the goalposts now. Am I? Was it you who set the goalpost wherein Magic is only about tournament-level play and not a casual game? Or does it seem to you that the OC's comment might be a statement about the economic situation in the broader cultural context that the game exists in? I like how you say "almost competitive decks." Granted, I haven't played for over a good decade, but through the ~15 years that I did play, powerful rares were typically between several dollars and tens of dollars. The decks of my richer friends were stuffed to the gills with such cards -- it adds up, and a good deck can cost a couple hundred bucks. That might be spare change for you, but it isn't for a lot of magic players. And like, a draft game is fun but at a cost of 4 boosters per player, that's not pocket change. We'd use rules like "all commons" to level the playing field.

qsort 5y ago
> Was it you who set the goalpost wherein Magic is only about tournament-level play and not a casual game? It's either a competitive game, and therefore comparable to other competitive games and sports, that can cost you similar amounts, or it's a casual game, where you are not after 100% efficiency. > I like how you say "almost competitive decks." https://www.mtggoldfish.com/decks/budget/standard#paper https://www.mtggoldfish.com/decks/budget/standard#paper Help yourself. Most of those decks are underpowered when compared to tier-1 competitive decks, but can definitely steal games. None of them are anywhere close $200, and that's at standard-legal prices. Rotated cards are effectively $0. > We'd use rules like "all commons" https://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/gameplay/formats/pauper https://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/gameplay/formats/paup... > And like, a draft game is fun but at a cost of 4 boosters per player, that's not pocket change If you're going to the store to draft, you're paying $12-$15 for a tournament that's going to last several hours, played in the exact same format they're playing at the Pro Tour, and with prizes. That's the price of a movie ticket. I understand that's still a lot to many people, but it's a far cry from "only the rich can compete". The prices are high and they could be lower, but they're not marginally higher than those of many other sports/games/activities. Also, there's online play. If you're good at the game, you actually NET money.
- klyrs 5y ago
  Nah, your black-and-white characterization doesn't describe reality very well. Point is, when folks bring competition decks to play with casual players, the result is not fun for the casual players.