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Australian Police get online account takeover, data disruption powers
- 1MachineElf 5y agoChina Lite
- lurker2093 5y agobut it's only ever going to be used to keep us safe /s (which strangely is a 'valid' reason....)
- __warlord__ 5y agochina.au
- chrismsimpson 5y agoObvious xenophobia aside, Australia is hardly trying to remake itself in China's image.
- aa-jv 5y agoNorth Korea with food and surf.
- miles 5y agoFTA: “…agencies can take control of a person’s online account to gather evidence about serious offences without consent, as well as add, copy, delete or alter material to disrupt criminal activity and collect intelligence from online networks.” (emphasis added) How is adding or altering data different than planting evidence?
- thefounder 5y ago>> How is adding or altering data different than planting evidence? I guess it's considered as an undercover/impersonation/honeypot job.
- jrsj 5y agoThis is going to be used for entrapment 100% Before they had to enter your life as a stranger, gain your trust, and convince you to break the law. Now, they can assume the identity of someone you already trust and persuade you to break the law.
- BLKNSLVR 5y agoI was about to post the same extract and ask a slightly different question: Does this break the chain of trust of evidence? How can any evidence, therefore, be admissible? Digital / electronic evidence has always been on a bit of a shaky foundation, but this crumbles it to pieces.
- akdor1154 5y agoI'm sort of hoping this is so badly conceived that it leads to a mistrial or ten and gets amended.. No chance of getting rid of it any other way :(
- jand 5y ago>> How is adding or altering data different than planting evidence? > Does this break the chain of trust of evidence? How can any evidence, therefore, be admissible? Just as advocatus diaboli: If you add a message to a bigger scale drug supplier in the name of one client, you could request an earlier delivery to some location of your choice. This would add content, but not plant any evidence - as the evidence would be the supplier handing you "the keys to the truck". I know nothing about australian law, but i am tempted to think that courts could burn serious time on such a case. Of course this is dangerous b.s. to have in legislation.
- actually_a_dog 5y ago> “What’s worse, the data disruption and network activity warrants could be issued by a member of the Administrative Appeals Tribunal – really?" she said. > "It is outrageous that these warrants won’t come from a judge of a superior court that is appointed on their personal capacity.” I'm having trouble with the terminology here, but does that mean that these types of warrants could be issued by the equivalent of a magistrate, rather than a judge?
- dannyw 5y agoyes.
- Kostchei 5y agoNot just that, but in what are effectively civil cases of unfair dismissal
- hazza_n_dazza 5y agono, it means they can be issued by a member of a large tribunal, they are bureaucrats, not even lawyers. (the Administrative Appeals Tribunal). Normally they deal with whether paperwork for such things as licenses or your dole check have been filled in properly.
- alfiedotwtf 5y agoI tried to tell people that this and worse would happen from the AABill but nobody actually cared. Even talking to a lot of tech-savvy people and tech-savvy lawyers, nope... at most, people raised an eyebrow but couldn't really care less. If people don't actually care, what more can someone do :(
- marcus_holmes 5y agoThey won't care until the stories of ordinary people suffering the consequences start emerging. But if the state can portray any victim of this legislation as a criminal, even plant digital evidence that they were conducting criminal activity, then it'll still go unheeded. What we need is good (investigative) journalism to keep the politicians and oligarchs in check. But the business model for that got destroyed and now we just have Murdoch and clickbait.
- BLKNSLVR 5y agoApparently Murdoch isn't a fan of the recent 4 Corners story about the lawsuits against Fox for towing Trump li(n)es about "stolen election!!, so Imma go home and watch it, and I suggest you do too.
- ashildr 5y agoI really wonder how all of this will work out once we get the first brain implants. Mobile phones are coming close to that but imagine police can add/remove/tamper with your memory at will…
- techdragon 5y agoI’d literally jump off a cliff before considering any kind of brain implant designed to be a computer interface that I wasn’t completely and legally in control of. If it lets a computer read anything out of my skull it’s going to be 100% under my own control. Like open source, and legally protected from any of these kinds of laws. The USA has things like the 4th and 5th amendments to protect from crossing that line, Australia’s law has no such inviolate rights.
- nonomaybeyes 5y agoIt's a penal colony again.
- scblzn 5y agoTime to drop all Atlassian products. Fortunately they removed Server licenses (you have to pay millions for the Datacenter ones or use Cloud) just in time for these new laws.
- Kostchei 5y agoI am interested to hear what atlassian have to say about it, they have been quite pro-australian. But.. what effort do you think the AU police are going to put in to get the data out of your JIRA tickets? Because if you want to punish Australia for it's poor laws that seems a weak lever to pull. And if your concern is MITM between servers, virtual machines or clients- well USA has had sufficient inference, probably by government actors, that some big players instituted SSL inside the data centers- I presume after finding taps. This is legislation to say they can do that sort of thing- it just seems to happen elsewhere but under some seal of secrecy. At least they acknowledge it.
- scblzn 5y agoWas more thinking about Confluence than Jira Where there is troves of data and schematics about various companies infrastructures
- ununoctium87 5y agoAtlassian products are varied across different jurisdictions. Chances are that if you’re using an Atlassian product in the USA, all your data is hosted in the USA too. Source: I work for Atlassian, platform stuff
- csharptwdec19 5y agoAt the end of the day though, Atlassian won't even sign NDAs with it's clients. Make of that what you will.
- scblzn 5y agoI'm an EU customer but my Atlassian Cloud contract is still between me and Atlassian Pty Ltd in Australia. So wherever the data is, the problem is still the same in my opinion.
- monkeybutton 5y agoIs this the same thing or related to Australian police having the power to compel (under threat of 10 years imprisonment to those who refuse) systems administrators to aid in investigations? I'm not Australian but seeing these sorts of laws being implemented in other commonwealth countries is concerning given how often they spread.
- endgame 5y agoNo, those were the Assistance and Access provisions that passed a few years back.
- monkeybutton 5y agoFor what it's worth, I found the article I was thinking of: https://ia.acs.org.au/article/2021/help-government-hack-or-face-10-years--jail.html https://ia.acs.org.au/article/2021/help-government-hack-or-f...
- endgame 5y agoInteresting, that article then links to another article discussing the amendments I was referencing: https://ia.acs.org.au/article/2021/encryption-act-has-cost-australian-business-billions.html https://ia.acs.org.au/article/2021/encryption-act-has-cost-a...
- BLKNSLVR 5y agoIt's pretty much an extension of that law, which was already questionable. As an Australian, with the minimal amount of the type of crime that these bills are said to be aimed at in comparison to other parts of the world (like those that actually have physical borders with other countries 'n' shit), it feels as if Australia is being used as a pilot country for the ratcheting (rat-shitting) up of this kind of control to (either or both) gauge public reaction and point to as an example of "well, they implemented it first, so there's precedent" for other five-eyes countries.
- patchtopic 5y agoI am disgusted by the mostly apathetic response in Australia to this terrible legislation.
- BLKNSLVR 5y agoIt's just another thing to add to the pile. Australians have got it too good to care about this sort of thing. Like western society and climate change, taking any kind of action gets in the way of enjoying the fucking weekend; don't be such a fucking downer. More sunshine I say!
- mickotron 5y agoI stopped writing to my federal member Jim Chalmers about the shitty legislation. I never get a response, I doubt his office even reads them.
- someotherperson 5y ago> Australians have got it too good to care about this sort of thing. Like western society and climate change, taking any kind of action gets in the way of enjoying the fucking weekend; don't be such a fucking downer. More sunshine I say! Nonsense. The problem is that the minority parties who oppose overreach like this are treated as dirty (Liberal Democratic Party) and the major parties all support crap like this. And we'll stay in this situation until the focus turns away from trying to ban recreational fishing[0] and steers back towards civil liberties. Of course, any mention of civil liberties today has you called an extremist in Australia by almost every single political party from Labour to the Greens. [0] http://www.sportingshooter.com.au/latest/proposed-animal-cruelty-definition-could-end-hunting-and-fishing-the-loose-cannon http://www.sportingshooter.com.au/latest/proposed-animal-cru...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- conz 5y agoFor the record, the Greens are the only major party to oppose this overreach. (Major in the sense that they are the 3rd largest party outside of the ALP and the Liberal parties, and larger than the National party.[*]) From the article: Green Senator Lidia Thorpe described the bill as “terribly flawed” and “problematic”, cited comments in the Richardson review that existing powers were adequate, and criticised the lack of time to consider the government’s amendments. “Unsurprisingly, the two major parties are in complete lockstep with each other and they are leading us down the road to a surveillance state,” she said. [*] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Party_of_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Party_of_Australia
- exo762 5y agoAll in the name of safety.
- endgame 5y agoFTA: "She pointed to Operation Ironside, the huge ANoM bust earlier this year that resulted in the arrests of more than 290 people, as a reason for the need for the new powers." So a successful police operation NOW is evidence that more powers are necessary? What kind of logic is that?
- dade_ 5y agoNow they can start their investigation of a suspected criminal element in the Labour Party and any other annoying opposition. These powers are a ruling government’s dream, let alone their financial master’s.
- endgame 5y agoI suppose it becomes trivial to make everything "Labor's Fault(TM)" when you can arbitrarily inject data.
- helloworld11 5y agoThe bullshit, power-grasping logic of police bureaucracies?
- vfclists 5y agoHave they been all successfully prosecuted?
- 2Gkashmiri 5y agowait till india gives their honest and upright police force these and more serious powers to fight "injustice and terrorism".
- soco 5y agoBut think of the children!
- tomohawk 5y agoThousands of police and military on the streets maintaining "order". People essentially under house arrest and not allowed to assemble or travel. And now this.
- dqh 5y agoWe prevented thousands of deaths, perhaps tens of thousands, with lockdowns. And many more serious illnesses. It was and is still worth it.
- tellersid 5y agoYou are a complete fool
- tellersid 5y agoYou are a complete and utter fool.
- Valmar 5y agoHow do you know this? Is there a control group? Did government and media propaganda tell you this?
- tomhoward 5y agoIt's quite clear that during 2020, the case numbers flattened then declined once the lockdown restrictions reached a certain level. (I live in Melbourne so experienced it first hand). Other Australian cities and NZ have been able to contain outbreaks with short lockdowns, and have been able to keep the countries Covid-free, more than any other countries. There is no other plausible explanation for the suppression of the virus that was achieved in 2020. (For what it's worth, with emergence of the delta strain, suppression measures are not working so well, and the government policies are having to adjust, which is starting to happen now in Victoria).
- dqh 5y ago> Is there a control group? Yes, almost every other region in the world. Compare our deaths per capita vs countries that took the approach you would have preferred.
- a0-prw 5y agoDictatorship, plain and simple
- hkai 5y agoSounds legit, we see how Australia handled the pandemic very well, totally did not enact any draconian measures and promoted everyone's freedom and wellbeing. Sounds like we should give Australian government more powers.
- oxymoran 5y agoGood grief. I have had about enough of the internet. It’s not worth the dystopia.
- lysp 5y agoIf you recall the takeover of the criminal encrypted mobile network used by drug smugglers recently. That case started around the same time the Australian Government introduced new online data laws. It had to be urgently rushed through with no reason (at the time) given. The investigation was done by the US with help from Australia Government - I wonder why? This is just the next step in those laws. Edit: https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/8/22524307/anom-encrypted-messaging-fbi-europol-afp-sting-operation-trojan-shield-greenlight https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/8/22524307/anom-encrypted-me...
- aa-jv 5y agoWow. I don't know how other Aussies feel about this, but to me this is so atrocious I just had to join HN to discuss it. This is sufficient motivation to abandon my Australian citizenship entirely and move to a country that is not dominated by totalitarian-authoritarian policies designed to impede the progress of a free and open society. This policy is clearly designed to make sure another Assange-type situation does not happen again. Australians need to learn to watch their (digital) back with even more care and attention than previously. We do not have the rights we think we do.
- throwaway210222 5y agoWill you still abandon your Austrialian citizenship if you find out that no other first-world country meets your standards? I doubt it.
- aa-jv 5y agoA typically purile argument - "the other kids are doing it, why can't Australians also do it?" Just: no. There are plenty of states that are still fighting this totalitarian-authoritarian effort. Austrian police can't modify peoples data online for their purposes.
- georgeplusplus 5y ago>>> There are plenty of states that are still fighting this totalitarian-authoritarian effort. Curious as to what states you believe those to be?
- m0zg 5y agoWhat I don't get is the reaction of Australians. Have you guys not read 1984? Big Brother and stuff? Every time these kinds of topics come up, a few Australians pop in and say that this Stalin-type bullshit is totally fine and it's for their own good. I mean people literally can't get out of the house over there in some places for more than an hour without getting beaten by police, and it's still "ok" with most Aussies presumably. What needs to happen for you guys to declare that maybe there's a little bit of government overreach? Gulag? Why are you so docile?
- HKH2 5y agoIt seems a lot of Australians want to live vicariously through Hollywood. Some might say it's just more of the cultural cringe. If I were to talk to someone on the street, I'd have no idea what shared knowledge or values we'd have. Multiculturalism leads to atomisation, and atomised societies are easy to control.
- yawaworht1978 5y agoThey require to be “reasonably necessary, and proportionate” ...sound ambiguous to me, and most importantly, what is "serious offences" or "serious criminal activity on the internet". It says crimes that carry jail time of three or more years. I assume that is minimum sentence. Does not sound extremely serious.threat to harm gives 5years , stalking 3 years, the police will have a field day with this, just think how often these happen online.
- alfiedotwtf 5y agoWhen the Deputy Premier of NSW can sic the anti-terror Fixated Persons Unit onto comedians because they don't like their criticism, one has to question how low the bar is on "reasonbly necessary, and proportionate".
- ironfootnz 5y agoThat's a dangerous move.