5 ms·

Using org-mode is a complete non-starter for me because of the requirement to use Emacs. I'm very happy with IntelliJ and don't wish to rewire my muscle memory/

Using org-mode is a complete non-starter for me because of the requirement to use Emacs. I'm very happy with IntelliJ and don't wish to rewire my muscle memory/conceptual familiarity from an IDE into an editor that I will detest anyway (because I was forced to use it to have one feature).

cyberbanjo 5y ago
While it may be a higher initial investment, emacs doesn't enforce any key bindings, just sets defaults and many people rebind them. Nothing prevents you from creating or finding bindings of your suiting
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  Key bindings are just one problem. Fundamentally, I don't want to put in the work just to drag Emacs out of the 1980s/1970s and into the modern day, or learn Emacs-specific concepts, when my existing tools already are ready to use from install time and already require no adjustment to my mindset because they use modern terminology etc.
- crispyambulance 5y ago
  > it may be a higher initial investment It IS a MASSIVE investment in time and effort to learn something that will appear as an obstacle MONTHS before it becomes second nature. Plus you spend the rest of you natural life fussing with your .emacs file.
  - medstrom 5y ago
    I thought that would be the case too, but after a few years and after adopting Doom Emacs, I've reached a stable flow. I don't fuss with it anymore. I just write new commands occasionally.
    - axiosgunnar 5y ago
      > after a few years […] I've reached a stable flow Do you guys not see the problem? :-)
      - medstrom 5y ago
        Nope :-)
        axiosgunnar 5y ago
        Main thing you're happy :-)
    - lytefm 5y ago
      Great about Doom Emacs: - has sensible VIM keybindings, no need to learn the Emacs ones - has batteries included, no need to tweak the config more than "yes, I'd like to activate Magit" makes it possible to actually be productive with org-mode within an hour.
  - chimprich 5y ago
    It doesn't take months to get familiar with Emacs. You can be quite effective after an hour, although I've been using it for a couple of decades and I'm still improving. I feel like of all the tools I've learnt to use, Emacs has had the greatest return on investment.
TeMPOraL 5y ago
FWIW, you can use Emacs just for org mode, and continue to use your usual tools for writing code.
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  Emacs is very idiosyncratic for beginners. Things like confusing terminology and lack of conformance with CUA (aka Windows 98-style shortcuts for navigation, copy and paste) make for an extremely steep learning curve when all I want to use it for is a very fancy organizer tool. I'm not willing to spend this much effort at this stage.
  - TeMPOraL 5y ago
    So don't :). It's not a competition. "Confusing terminology and lack of conformance with CUA" (aka. being older than both CUA and modern terminology) is perhaps a stumbling block for some, but arguably not that big once a wannabe-user decides to extend their attention span beyond 30 seconds.
    - selfhoster11 5y ago
      If the Emacs keybindings and terminology could be mastered in not much more than 30 seconds, they wouldn't pose a problem in the first place. There is value in standardisation, and it's unlikely that the current starter Emacs layout provides any unique value other than letting 40+ year old industry veterans keep their muscle memory, while alienating basically everyone born after the age of the monochrome glass TTY. While I understand that using or not using Emacs is not a competition, it almost appears that Emacs tries to be different for the sake of being different. Just like Mac OS uses the Ctrl+PgDn/Up/Arrow shortcuts in a way that contradicts what virtually every other platform does (including Windows and Linux). Edit: do not misunderstand my point, I am not saying that Emacs is trying to be different for the sake of being different. I am saying that remaining the way it is, on purpose, when the majority of the world expressed a preference for a different convention that comes with no clear downsides, makes it look as if that were the case. Or makes Emacs look recalcitrant, if you prefer.
brabel 5y ago
I am also a heavy IntelliJ user but have been using emacs on the side. emacs is fantastic and you only need very basic knowledge of it to be able to effectively use it and org-mode. Don't let the "everything is a shortcut" tutorials/videos about emacs stop you from trying: emacs can be used as any other app: with the mouse, clicking and scrolling around... most IntelliJ shortcuts to edit text will work the same on emacs (a few require you to install a couple of packages, if you want I can send you which ones I use to get a very IJ-like experience).

cyberbanjo 5y ago

While it may be a higher initial investment, emacs doesn't enforce any key bindings, just sets defaults and many people rebind them. Nothing prevents you from creating or finding bindings of your suiting

selfhoster11 5y ago
Key bindings are just one problem. Fundamentally, I don't want to put in the work just to drag Emacs out of the 1980s/1970s and into the modern day, or learn Emacs-specific concepts, when my existing tools already are ready to use from install time and already require no adjustment to my mindset because they use modern terminology etc.
crispyambulance 5y ago
> it may be a higher initial investment It IS a MASSIVE investment in time and effort to learn something that will appear as an obstacle MONTHS before it becomes second nature. Plus you spend the rest of you natural life fussing with your .emacs file.
- medstrom 5y ago
  I thought that would be the case too, but after a few years and after adopting Doom Emacs, I've reached a stable flow. I don't fuss with it anymore. I just write new commands occasionally.
  - axiosgunnar 5y ago
    > after a few years […] I've reached a stable flow Do you guys not see the problem? :-)
    - medstrom 5y ago
      Nope :-)
      - axiosgunnar 5y ago
        Main thing you're happy :-)
  - lytefm 5y ago
    Great about Doom Emacs: - has sensible VIM keybindings, no need to learn the Emacs ones - has batteries included, no need to tweak the config more than "yes, I'd like to activate Magit" makes it possible to actually be productive with org-mode within an hour.
- chimprich 5y ago
  It doesn't take months to get familiar with Emacs. You can be quite effective after an hour, although I've been using it for a couple of decades and I'm still improving. I feel like of all the tools I've learnt to use, Emacs has had the greatest return on investment.

TeMPOraL 5y ago

FWIW, you can use Emacs just for org mode, and continue to use your usual tools for writing code.

selfhoster11 5y ago
Emacs is very idiosyncratic for beginners. Things like confusing terminology and lack of conformance with CUA (aka Windows 98-style shortcuts for navigation, copy and paste) make for an extremely steep learning curve when all I want to use it for is a very fancy organizer tool. I'm not willing to spend this much effort at this stage.
- TeMPOraL 5y ago
  So don't :). It's not a competition. "Confusing terminology and lack of conformance with CUA" (aka. being older than both CUA and modern terminology) is perhaps a stumbling block for some, but arguably not that big once a wannabe-user decides to extend their attention span beyond 30 seconds.
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    If the Emacs keybindings and terminology could be mastered in not much more than 30 seconds, they wouldn't pose a problem in the first place. There is value in standardisation, and it's unlikely that the current starter Emacs layout provides any unique value other than letting 40+ year old industry veterans keep their muscle memory, while alienating basically everyone born after the age of the monochrome glass TTY. While I understand that using or not using Emacs is not a competition, it almost appears that Emacs tries to be different for the sake of being different. Just like Mac OS uses the Ctrl+PgDn/Up/Arrow shortcuts in a way that contradicts what virtually every other platform does (including Windows and Linux). Edit: do not misunderstand my point, I am not saying that Emacs is trying to be different for the sake of being different. I am saying that remaining the way it is, on purpose, when the majority of the world expressed a preference for a different convention that comes with no clear downsides, makes it look as if that were the case. Or makes Emacs look recalcitrant, if you prefer.

brabel 5y ago

I am also a heavy IntelliJ user but have been using emacs on the side. emacs is fantastic and you only need very basic knowledge of it to be able to effectively use it and org-mode. Don't let the "everything is a shortcut" tutorials/videos about emacs stop you from trying: emacs can be used as any other app: with the mouse, clicking and scrolling around... most IntelliJ shortcuts to edit text will work the same on emacs (a few require you to install a couple of packages, if you want I can send you which ones I use to get a very IJ-like experience).