4 ms·

The censorship didn't get going anywhere for the most part until about 2016. Before that, the internet was not considered a serious enough information channel

The censorship didn't get going anywhere for the most part until about 2016. Before that, the internet was not considered a serious enough information channel compared to mainstream media to impose much censorship on. After the Trump election, the mainstream woke up, freaked out, and the screws got tightened everywhere.

sammalloy 5y ago
The theory is that Dugin's strategies (outlined in "Foundations of Geopolitics") were widely implemented in the US in 2015-2016 in an attempt to destabilize the west. Wikipedia: > The book emphasizes that Russia must spread anti-Americanism everywhere: "the main 'scapegoat' will be precisely the U.S...Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics". Facebook, Twitter, and other platforms became publishing platforms for active measures (propaganda and disinformation) campaigns to promote Russian-style authoritarianism and diminish the influence of western democracy. Once these platforms were given this evidence (widely published and released online by the platforms themselves), they took some steps to stop it. Notable examples include populist movements such as the Trump campaign, state secession movements, white separatist movements, and more recently anti-vax movements. There are many more. Facebook in particular has failed to stop the spread, and the site is widely considered by most outside experts as "captured" by foreign assets. This is especially true when it comes to QAnon and anti-vax content, which appears to be promulgated to harm western institutions.
- tehjoker 5y ago
  It's insane that there are still people that think our own countrymen aren't crazy enough to do this to themselves and blame a foreign power (that conveniently is an official enemy).
  - sammalloy 5y ago
    The implicit strategy of such active measures (according to the sources), is to take advantage of homegrown, nativist movements and co-opt them from the inside. In other words, it's best if one's own countrymen, as you put it, start and maintain the movement. At some point, the foreign power either influences it from the sidelines or outright funds and takes over the group. In the case of at least one state separatist movement (and at least one white power movement, IIRC), both were revealed to have leaders who traveled back and forth to Russia and/or received funding. I would also invite you to go back to the origins of the Trump campaign, and see how it evolved. It originally began as an active measure, with the Trump campaign hiring paid actors to promote his campaign announcement. There's a paper trail behind this, and several of his former staffers have come forward recently and admitted it.
    - cratermoon 5y ago
      > The implicit strategy of such active measures (according to the sources), is to take advantage of homegrown, nativist movements and co-opt them from the inside. You just described US foreign policy in South America and SE Asia. Somehow people think the United States is too big or too exceptional to be the target of agitprop.
      - sammalloy 5y ago
        It's also the case, that the best historical, academic sources consistently point out that Russian disinformation and propaganda is some of the best in the world. From what I understand, based on what I've read, the US has actually learned from them. I think part of this has to do with their two decade head start over the US in political warfare. In other words, Russia has more experience doing this kind of thing over time.
        tehjoker 5y ago
        You really think Russian agitprop is the best in the world? The US has conducted so many regime change operations I can't even count them, and they mostly start with propaganda aired from outside the country, funding from CIA front groups, and eventually the funding of death squads or invasions. Russia has taken Crimea, a piece of Ukraine that secures its access to a seaport, but nothing that compares to anything the US has done in recent memory (illegal invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq, supporting coups in Boliva, etc) or currently (encouraging separatist movements in China). This theory is like a mirror image of what the empire is doing to the world.
- narrator 5y ago
  Well if you take that kind of stuff seriously, you really should watch the Yuri Bezmenov interviews. Yuri was a KGB defector in the 80s who was working in India and decided to defect after he fell in love with the culture of India and became disillusioned. He worked in ideological subversion of nations through propaganda: https://youtu.be/yErKTVdETpw https://youtu.be/yErKTVdETpw
hopesthoughts 5y ago
Yeah, back shortly after Trump's election Google had a staff meeting. The content of it was something like we weren't successful this time, but we'll win next time. OK I found it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRf9UxsM-NE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRf9UxsM-NE

sammalloy 5y ago

The theory is that Dugin's strategies (outlined in "Foundations of Geopolitics") were widely implemented in the US in 2015-2016 in an attempt to destabilize the west. Wikipedia: > The book emphasizes that Russia must spread anti-Americanism everywhere: "the main 'scapegoat' will be precisely the U.S...Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics". Facebook, Twitter, and other platforms became publishing platforms for active measures (propaganda and disinformation) campaigns to promote Russian-style authoritarianism and diminish the influence of western democracy. Once these platforms were given this evidence (widely published and released online by the platforms themselves), they took some steps to stop it. Notable examples include populist movements such as the Trump campaign, state secession movements, white separatist movements, and more recently anti-vax movements. There are many more. Facebook in particular has failed to stop the spread, and the site is widely considered by most outside experts as "captured" by foreign assets. This is especially true when it comes to QAnon and anti-vax content, which appears to be promulgated to harm western institutions.

tehjoker 5y ago
It's insane that there are still people that think our own countrymen aren't crazy enough to do this to themselves and blame a foreign power (that conveniently is an official enemy).
- sammalloy 5y ago
  The implicit strategy of such active measures (according to the sources), is to take advantage of homegrown, nativist movements and co-opt them from the inside. In other words, it's best if one's own countrymen, as you put it, start and maintain the movement. At some point, the foreign power either influences it from the sidelines or outright funds and takes over the group. In the case of at least one state separatist movement (and at least one white power movement, IIRC), both were revealed to have leaders who traveled back and forth to Russia and/or received funding. I would also invite you to go back to the origins of the Trump campaign, and see how it evolved. It originally began as an active measure, with the Trump campaign hiring paid actors to promote his campaign announcement. There's a paper trail behind this, and several of his former staffers have come forward recently and admitted it.
  - cratermoon 5y ago
    > The implicit strategy of such active measures (according to the sources), is to take advantage of homegrown, nativist movements and co-opt them from the inside. You just described US foreign policy in South America and SE Asia. Somehow people think the United States is too big or too exceptional to be the target of agitprop.
    - sammalloy 5y ago
      It's also the case, that the best historical, academic sources consistently point out that Russian disinformation and propaganda is some of the best in the world. From what I understand, based on what I've read, the US has actually learned from them. I think part of this has to do with their two decade head start over the US in political warfare. In other words, Russia has more experience doing this kind of thing over time.
      - tehjoker 5y ago
        You really think Russian agitprop is the best in the world? The US has conducted so many regime change operations I can't even count them, and they mostly start with propaganda aired from outside the country, funding from CIA front groups, and eventually the funding of death squads or invasions. Russia has taken Crimea, a piece of Ukraine that secures its access to a seaport, but nothing that compares to anything the US has done in recent memory (illegal invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq, supporting coups in Boliva, etc) or currently (encouraging separatist movements in China). This theory is like a mirror image of what the empire is doing to the world.
narrator 5y ago
Well if you take that kind of stuff seriously, you really should watch the Yuri Bezmenov interviews. Yuri was a KGB defector in the 80s who was working in India and decided to defect after he fell in love with the culture of India and became disillusioned. He worked in ideological subversion of nations through propaganda: https://youtu.be/yErKTVdETpw https://youtu.be/yErKTVdETpw

hopesthoughts 5y ago

Yeah, back shortly after Trump's election Google had a staff meeting. The content of it was something like we weren't successful this time, but we'll win next time. OK I found it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRf9UxsM-NE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRf9UxsM-NE