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Do you vocally campaign to repeal the law that bans under 18s from consuming alcohol and cigarettes? Do you vocally campaign to repeal the law that prevents yo

by grecy 5y ago

Do you vocally campaign to repeal the law that bans under 18s from consuming alcohol and cigarettes? Do you vocally campaign to repeal the law that prevents you buying and using asbestos in their buildings? Do you vocally campaign to repeal the law that prevents you from buying and owning an anti-aircraft missile system? Our democracies have plenty of laws about things we're not allowed to do. Some of them are for our own good, some are for the overall good of society.

whatevertrevor 5y ago
And there's no definitive evidence that playing any video game for more than 3 hours a week is in conflict with our good or the good of the society. Not all regulations are born equal and some of them are definitely not worth fighting against.
- grecy 5y ago
  > And there's no definitive evidence that playing any video game for more than 3 hours a week is in conflict with our good or the good of the society I agree, though definitive evidence is clearly *not* the threshold for when laws to protect us are or are not created. For example, there is a mountain of evidence that smoking is exceptionally bad for adults, but there's no law against it. I could smoke 20 packets a day from now on. I could even drink 10 bottles of vodka a day perfectly legally.
justinmcp 5y ago
One of the most interesting things about China related discussions is the flood of people who will arrive and post points/arguments with various levels of false equivalency with "western" law/practise/etc. _Not_ that you are doing that, maybe, but thats one of the challenges in these conversations, who is being genuine and who is not? China _is_ authoritarian, denying that is ridiculous. The CCP creates laws that individually or in part can benefit its populace, but are often or solely pro cadre or their personal interests. That democracies have corruption or vested interests (whether "positively" motivated or not) influencing laws does not make the process or the results equivalent.
- dillondoyle 5y ago
  I 100% believe that it's coordinated gov shills. I cannot fathom that our worldviews live in such insanely different realities. Maybe I'm the delusional one. but given the many many reports on CCPs active propaganda and controlling of media/online content (hell the whole point of this discussion) gives me plenty of evidence to support large-scale coordinated govt propaganda tools, if not here, definitely elsewhere.
  - dillondoyle 5y ago
    Annnd -4, and -1 on another comment that I don't think even is controversial, and aligns with views that most on HN typically hold on speech.
- erklik 5y ago
  > who is being genuine and who is not Does it matter? Judge the idea, not the person behind it I say. If the argument is not worthy to stand, it will fall. > That democracies have corruption But it's not corruption. That's the issue. "When the preferences of economic elites and the stands of organized interest groups are controlled for, the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy" [1] That's not corruption. If America was a true democracy, the country would look completely different. > The CCP creates laws that individually or in part can benefit its populace, but are often or solely pro cadre or their personal interests. It doesn't seem like that from the outside. Looking in, it seems like the CCP has successfully pulled an astronomical amount of people out of poverty and increasing QoL insanely, all while maintaining public legitimacy. Honestly, all it seems like, is that America drunk the cool aid too much and now believes so hard in it's own propaganda that it looks like brainwashing, while the reality is utterly different. 1. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/america-is-not-a-democracy/550931/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/america...
  - justinmcp 5y ago
    > Does it matter? Judge the idea, not the person behind it I say. If the argument is not worthy to stand, it will fall. Of course it matters, what a bizarre statement. >> That democracies have corruption > But it's not corruption. That's the issue. Either deliberately, though in-attention or personal need you, are mis-interpreting and or changing the subject. > It doesn't seem like that from the outside. Looking in, it seems like the CCP has successfully pulled an > astronomical amount of people out of poverty and increasing QoL insanely, all while maintaining public ? > legitimacy. There is no good way to assert that, but it's a pretty common refrain. > Honestly, all it seems like, is that America drunk the cool aid too much and now believes so hard in it's > own propaganda that it looks like brainwashing, while the reality is utterly different. I'm not American. All this cycles round to what I was saying. You could just be an interested observer, passionate about seemingly connected ideas. Or you could be deliberately derailing, trying to muddy the waters. There's no good way to tell, but ultimately it still paints China in a bad light - eventually no one will believe anything.

by grecy 5y ago

whatevertrevor 5y ago

And there's no definitive evidence that playing any video game for more than 3 hours a week is in conflict with our good or the good of the society. Not all regulations are born equal and some of them are definitely not worth fighting against.

grecy 5y ago
> And there's no definitive evidence that playing any video game for more than 3 hours a week is in conflict with our good or the good of the society I agree, though definitive evidence is clearly *not* the threshold for when laws to protect us are or are not created. For example, there is a mountain of evidence that smoking is exceptionally bad for adults, but there's no law against it. I could smoke 20 packets a day from now on. I could even drink 10 bottles of vodka a day perfectly legally.

justinmcp 5y ago

One of the most interesting things about China related discussions is the flood of people who will arrive and post points/arguments with various levels of false equivalency with "western" law/practise/etc. _Not_ that you are doing that, maybe, but thats one of the challenges in these conversations, who is being genuine and who is not? China _is_ authoritarian, denying that is ridiculous. The CCP creates laws that individually or in part can benefit its populace, but are often or solely pro cadre or their personal interests. That democracies have corruption or vested interests (whether "positively" motivated or not) influencing laws does not make the process or the results equivalent.

dillondoyle 5y ago
I 100% believe that it's coordinated gov shills. I cannot fathom that our worldviews live in such insanely different realities. Maybe I'm the delusional one. but given the many many reports on CCPs active propaganda and controlling of media/online content (hell the whole point of this discussion) gives me plenty of evidence to support large-scale coordinated govt propaganda tools, if not here, definitely elsewhere.
- dillondoyle 5y ago
  Annnd -4, and -1 on another comment that I don't think even is controversial, and aligns with views that most on HN typically hold on speech.
erklik 5y ago
> who is being genuine and who is not Does it matter? Judge the idea, not the person behind it I say. If the argument is not worthy to stand, it will fall. > That democracies have corruption But it's not corruption. That's the issue. "When the preferences of economic elites and the stands of organized interest groups are controlled for, the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy" [1] That's not corruption. If America was a true democracy, the country would look completely different. > The CCP creates laws that individually or in part can benefit its populace, but are often or solely pro cadre or their personal interests. It doesn't seem like that from the outside. Looking in, it seems like the CCP has successfully pulled an astronomical amount of people out of poverty and increasing QoL insanely, all while maintaining public legitimacy. Honestly, all it seems like, is that America drunk the cool aid too much and now believes so hard in it's own propaganda that it looks like brainwashing, while the reality is utterly different. 1. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/america-is-not-a-democracy/550931/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/america...
- justinmcp 5y ago
  > Does it matter? Judge the idea, not the person behind it I say. If the argument is not worthy to stand, it will fall. Of course it matters, what a bizarre statement. >> That democracies have corruption > But it's not corruption. That's the issue. Either deliberately, though in-attention or personal need you, are mis-interpreting and or changing the subject. > It doesn't seem like that from the outside. Looking in, it seems like the CCP has successfully pulled an > astronomical amount of people out of poverty and increasing QoL insanely, all while maintaining public ? > legitimacy. There is no good way to assert that, but it's a pretty common refrain. > Honestly, all it seems like, is that America drunk the cool aid too much and now believes so hard in it's > own propaganda that it looks like brainwashing, while the reality is utterly different. I'm not American. All this cycles round to what I was saying. You could just be an interested observer, passionate about seemingly connected ideas. Or you could be deliberately derailing, trying to muddy the waters. There's no good way to tell, but ultimately it still paints China in a bad light - eventually no one will believe anything.